Sweet Steve!
Bf109 with invasion stripes??
- Thread starter markg
- Start date
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I like it!
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
found it. i have been reading a complation of articles written by Merle Olmsted the 357th historian. this is a page from "The Great Mousetrap Play" which was about combat on Jan 14, 1945. another interesting comment in this article were the claims of 109Es being used at this late date in the war.
January 1945 gives you a clue.
There were Bf 109s produced in an all over green camouflage,the rare Erla Ks for a start. Even one finished in two greens with low contrast could easily be mistaken for Olive Drab. Stripes around the fuselage were common on many fighters involved in Defence of the Reich. Reichsverteidigung bands were obligatory and JG 4s were black/white/black.
Misidentification of enemy aircraft was commonplace.I'm not aware of any combat units with Emils on their books late in the war,nor are any recorded in loss reports. These records are much more reliable witnesses than pilots involved in combat catching sometimes fleeting glimpses at aircraft at considerable range.
Descriptions of enemy aircraft camouflage can be a bit bizarre when they appear in combat reports. I've read accounts from RAF pilots of Luftwaffe aircraft carrying roundels,but there is no other evidence to support their view. There are no German records of such a thing happening and Luftwaffe veterans have never heard of such a thing!
Cheers
Steve
There were Bf 109s produced in an all over green camouflage,the rare Erla Ks for a start. Even one finished in two greens with low contrast could easily be mistaken for Olive Drab. Stripes around the fuselage were common on many fighters involved in Defence of the Reich. Reichsverteidigung bands were obligatory and JG 4s were black/white/black.
Misidentification of enemy aircraft was commonplace.I'm not aware of any combat units with Emils on their books late in the war,nor are any recorded in loss reports. These records are much more reliable witnesses than pilots involved in combat catching sometimes fleeting glimpses at aircraft at considerable range.
Descriptions of enemy aircraft camouflage can be a bit bizarre when they appear in combat reports. I've read accounts from RAF pilots of Luftwaffe aircraft carrying roundels,but there is no other evidence to support their view. There are no German records of such a thing happening and Luftwaffe veterans have never heard of such a thing!
Cheers
Steve
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bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
were there any loses of JG 4 109Ks for that date? some of the german records are missing or sketchy. i have been trying to track down info on a LW pilot for over a year and his history is non-existent. i can see someone mistaking F models for Gs...but the E was quite different. i am not claiming it happened but i can see at that late date they might have used any flyable plane that was around....
fubar57
General
Great looking model Steve. There's some decals heading my way for a British G-14. Not sure if it's like yours or not.
Geo
Geo
should be able to sort it out later this afternoon, as a taste, three combat reports from just after D-Day !
ok here are the scanned pages from a book called Victory Fighters : the veterans story.
makes interesting reading i think !
makes interesting reading i think !
I think those are the reports I've seen. Interesting that Collyns' was so keen to identify the parachute as German. God forbid that the aircraft with RAF roundels was infact an RAF aircraft!
Both Boon and Collyns had been prewarned about a spuriously marked enemy aircraft. Any psychologist will be able to tell you about people seeing what they are expecting to see.
Dinsdale saw no roundels and is much more circumspect about the stripes.
There is a famous picture of an Me163 dumping fuel prior to the pilot (Fritz Kelb) bailing out. It looks for all the world to be marked with roundels whereas it is actually marked with white outline Balkenkreuz
It is imposible to discount or confirm these accounts today. I certainly believe the reports,they honestly reported what they thought they had seen.I would treat them with caution,that's all.
Cheers
Steve
Both Boon and Collyns had been prewarned about a spuriously marked enemy aircraft. Any psychologist will be able to tell you about people seeing what they are expecting to see.
Dinsdale saw no roundels and is much more circumspect about the stripes.
There is a famous picture of an Me163 dumping fuel prior to the pilot (Fritz Kelb) bailing out. It looks for all the world to be marked with roundels whereas it is actually marked with white outline Balkenkreuz
It is imposible to discount or confirm these accounts today. I certainly believe the reports,they honestly reported what they thought they had seen.I would treat them with caution,that's all.
Cheers
Steve
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Interesting that Collyns mentions the shape of the parachute canopy (Luftwaffe canopies I believe had more gores than British or American types, therefore giving a 'fuller' shape when deployed), but no mention of the colour of the canopy. As far as I am aware, many, though perhaps not all, Luftwaffe aircrew parachute canopies were a yellowish colour (not to be confused with the pale 'khaki' of airborne forces canopies), whereas Allied canopies were white.
I was giving an Erla built K as an example. There are only a few (3?) known. Many late war Luftwaffe schemes comprised green and brown/green colours which could easily be mistaken for an overall green or olive colour.
I and III JG 4 had Ks "on the books" in early 1945,what they were doing on that date I'd have to check.
Cheers
Steve
Must admit my first thoughts after i read those pages were.I think those are the reports I've seen. Interesting that Collyns' was so keen to identify the parachute as German. God forbid that the aircraft with RAF roundels was infact an RAF aircraft!
Both Boon and Collyns had been prewarned about a spuriously marked enemy aircraft. Any psychologist will be able to tell you about people seeing what they are expecting to see.
Dinsdale saw no roundels and is much more circumspect about the stripes.
There is a famous picture of an Me163 dumping fuel prior to the pilot (Fritz Kelb) bailing out. It looks for all the world to be marked with roundels whereas it is actually marked with white outline Balkenkreuz
It is imposible to discount or confirm these accounts today. I certainly believe the reports,they honestly reported what they thought they had seen.I would treat them with caution,that's all.
Cheers
Steve
Wonder if they were fighting each other ?
