Big, slow gasoline engines

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Stelth

Airman
12
3
Sep 27, 2009
Years ago, I posted on a gearhead site about the giant gasoline engines of WWII and got very little response. I've been thinking about this subject again.

WWII was the real last hurrah of giant gasoline engines. They didn't completely disappear for a while afterwards, but the handwriting was on the wall. It's kind of interesting that the USSR and Japan had diesel operated tanks, while in the west, diesel was mostly (but not completely) ignored.

For me, one of the standouts is the Hall-Scott 400/440 which were 1091 cubic inches and powered the M25/26 Tank Transporter. 240 hp at 2100 RPM. 930 ft. lbs of torque at 1350 rpm. These figures were like the figures that diesels of the future would make, but not contemporary diesels. Of course the tradeoff in the M25/26 was approx 1 mpg under ideal conditions, and considerably less when hauling a load. These engines also found use after the war in big trucks.

Another, of course, is the R-4360 Wasp Major, an absolute beast at 4362.5 cubic inches or 71.5l, and up to 4300 hp. Of course it used prodigious quantities of gasoline, and paid for its power with a nightmarish maintenance schedule that made it impractical when Uncle Sam wasn't paying the bills.

The Hall-Scotts have the reputation of being solid, reliable, durable engines. The R-4360, not so much.

And tank engines. The Ford GAA, making 450 or 500 gross horsepower depending on whose figures you're looking at, from 1100 ci, or 18l, with dual overhead cams and over 1000 ft. lbs of torque from idle to 2200 rpm. The Rolls Royce Meteor, with 550+ hp from 27 liters of displacement/1649 cid, with 1350 ft. lbs of torque. Max 2250 rpm. Being a de-rated non-supercharged Merlin (basically, with more cast iron parts), it proved reliable and durable in service. This is the engine that, in the Centurion, made the concept of the MBT feasible. Incidentally, the Australians used Meteor powered Centurions in Vietnam. They had to carry lots of extra gasoline due to this tank being less efficient than a diesel powered M48, for instance. Then, of course, you have the Chrysler A57 Multibank, a 30-cylinder flathead engine that was not quite as diesel-like in its power delivery, but did manage to power a lot of Shermans (mostly palmed off on the Brits). For comparison, the Russian T-34 tank had a 38.8 liter engine producing 500 hp, which doesn't seem like a lot of power from that displacement.

Then there were boat engines. The 83-foot patrol boats used by the USCG had two of the mighty Sterling TCG-8 Viking II engines. These were straight-eights of 3619 cid. Or 59-ish liters. 600 horsepower at 1200 rpm. 5.0:1 compression ratio so they could use whatever crap gasoline was available. And thirsty. At cruising speed, the 83-footers used about 100 gallons per hour, and at full throttle, 120 gph. The US Navy, even though they were working on converting to diesel, used the Hall Scott Defender, a 1996 cid/32.7 liter in the 63 foot rescue boat at 575 horsepower at 2100 rpm.

I find these monster gasoline engines fascinating, until I discovered some of these, I had wondered if there were ever any gasoline engines with diesel-like torque curves. The answer is an emphatic yes. They didn't disappear at the end of WWII, though they slowly gave way to diesels. I remember as a kid in the 60's and early 70's seeing gasoline powered semi-trailer rigs. The weren't that uncommon.
 
While not a Huge Gasoline engine, I was always fascinated by the GMC 702 "Twin-Six" V-12 engine, Basically Two 351 V-6 Engines, even if it did have 1 cast 12 cylinder block, it had two distributors, 4 exhaust manifolds, 2 carburetors, and 2 intake manifolds. Only 275 HP at 2400 rpm, but 630 ft - lbs at only 1600 rpm. They make a very unique sound. We had a 305 V-6 Powered GMC Pickup on the ranch when I was a kid, I always liked the way the spark plugs were located on the intake side of the heads. The spark plug wires going thru the intake manifold is unique.
1736804366301.jpeg

Source https://www.pinterest.com/pin/gmcs-702-ci-v12--838232549374110855/
 
A friend inherited a 1947 Federal 2 1/2 ton stake body truck from his uncle in the late 1960s. With the unsyncronized transmission, I learned all about double clutching. It was then I knew why the trucks in the 1940s & 50s sounded the way they did and accelerated so slowly. The double clutching came in handy when I drove an MGA and showed the owner.
 
I don't know about including the 4360 in this list. It was really big, but not especially slow. 4000+ horsepower is nothing to sneeze at...
 

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A friend inherited a 1947 Federal 2 1/2 ton stake body truck from his uncle in the late 1960s. With the unsyncronized transmission, I learned all about double clutching. It was then I knew why the trucks in the 1940s & 50s sounded the way they did and accelerated so slowly. The double clutching came in handy when I drove an MGA and showed the owner.
I love that kind of talk.
 
I don't know about including the 4360 in this list. It was really big, but not especially slow. 4000+ horsepower is nothing to sneeze at...
They certainly made enormous power. And peak power at 2800 rpm I guess isn't that slow. I included it in large part because it's often thought of as the pinnacle of piston technology. But it is really a post-WWII engine, so maybe it doesn't belong in the list.
 
I don't know about including the 4360 in this list. It was really big, but not especially slow. 4000+ horsepower is nothing to sneeze at...

An interesting picture.
Looks like Reno with interesting aircraft. But why is a bare 4360 laying on the ground on tractor tyres with an engine stand there as well, on the ramp?
I am doubting that they took it out of the stand? But, why is it just laying out on the ramp? It must have arrived there on something!

As far as the big high-output late piston aero engines go, I think they all had very man hour intensive overhaul. But some of them were fairly good on TBO. OTOH, modern mature big fan jets are incredible TBO.

Eng
 
An interesting picture.
Looks like Reno with interesting aircraft. But why is a bare 4360 laying on the ground on tractor tyres with an engine stand there as well, on the ramp?
I am doubting that they took it out of the stand? But, why is it just laying out on the ramp? It must have arrived there on something!

As far as the big high-output late piston aero engines go, I think they all had very man hour intensive overhaul. But some of them were fairly good on TBO. OTOH, modern mature big fan jets are incredible TBO.

Eng
Big loud piston engines make me giddy and laugh because I cannot believe the utter prime level of violence and noise and smell they make.
Ww1 or ww2 it is the same to me.

When it starts it is living. The job of, then, keeping it running to let your guy live another day.
Or now this VERY previous piece of history,

Jets do not do that to me. I know.. taste.... but there you have it.
 
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Big loud piston engines make me giddy and laugh because I cannot believe the utter prime level of violence and noise and smell they make.
Ww1 or ww2 it is the same to me.

When it starts it is living. The job of, then, keeping it running to let your guy live another day.
Or now this VERY previous piece of history,

Jets do not do that to me. I know.. taste.... but there you have it.


Hanging out with a 4360 at power is indeed addicting. 40 years later I do have pretty impressive tinnitus, though.
 

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Big loud piston engines make me giddy and laugh because I cannot believe the utter prime level of violence and noise and smell they make.
Ww1 or ww2 it is the same to me.

When it starts it is living. The job of, then, keeping it running to let your guy live another day.
Or now this VERY previous piece of history,

Jets do not do that to me. I know.. taste.... but there you have it.

Well, you know that I have invested a fair chunk of my life rebuilding, testing and flying piston engines.

I have done the same with gas turbines.

High performance Piston engines have soul, but are likely to bite you.

Modern Gas turbines can be incredibly powerful and reliable.

A bit like other things in life!

Eng
 
An interesting picture.
Looks like Reno with interesting aircraft. But why is a bare 4360 laying on the ground on tractor tyres with an engine stand there as well, on the ramp?
I am doubting that they took it out of the stand? But, why is it just laying out on the ramp? It must have arrived there on something!
Looks blown up to me....
 
The Chieftain, of youtube fame, has done a 2-part video series about the M-25/26 in general, and one M-25 in particular that has been almost completely restored and can be driven. The owner of this particular Dragon Wagon says he shifts at 1800 rpm. The sound of that Hall-Scott 440 is just so deep and rumbly. The truck itself is amazingly complicated due to all of its features. I know that Kenworth used the Hall-Scott 400, pretty much the same engine for some semi-tractors following the war, I think into the '50's.

And while I'm talking about gasoline, the USA didn't transition to diesel very quickly. The M-46, M-47, and early versions of the M-48 Patton tanks used the Continental AV-1790, an air-cooled 1790 cid/29l V-12 for motive power.

The British used the Liberty/Nuffield L-12 V-12 engine in tanks until the Meteor became available. It's another big, slow engine, 1649 cu. in. or about 27 liters, and if I'm not mistaken, was governed to 1700 rpm or less in tanks. When used in aircraft, 2000 rpm was used for takeoff.
 

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