Biggest speed increase within type?

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jerry W. Loper, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. Jerry W. Loper

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    The Messerschmitt Bf-109H-1 high altitude fighter had a speed of 466 m.p.h., or 1.664 times the speed of the prototype Bf-109, which had an estimated speed of 280 m.p.h. Are there any other WW2 aircraft with comparable or bigger speed increases?
     
  2. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I would guess the Spit is close but the -109 I think holds this "record."
     
  3. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    That's a lot. Was it better engines?
     
  4. AVRoe

    AVRoe Member

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    The Fw 190(Butcher Bird)
     
  5. SoD Stitch

    SoD Stitch Banned

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    Actually, I researched it a bit and, no, the Spit wasn't even close; even with a Griffon engine installed as in the later marks, it barely had a speed increase of 100 mph (300+ vs. almost 400 for the Mk XII).
     
  6. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Nope does not come close to the Bf 109.

    The prototype Fw 190 had a max speed of aprox 380 mph and the Fw 109D had a top speed of aprox 440 mph. That is a difference of about 60 mph.
     
  7. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

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    Has anyone mentioned the Me 262 yet ?

    First flight was with a 700 PS piston engine with an unknown speed, may have been around 400-450 km/h at max. Serial production machines have been reported at about 850 km/h.
     
  8. magnocain

    magnocain Member

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    Not the f4u, as it was really fast to begin with.

    that 109 sounds right.
     
  9. marshall

    marshall Member

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    What about later Spitfires, Mk 21 about 450mph?
     
  10. Hobilar

    Hobilar Member

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    Saab 21A with 1,475 hp Swedish built Daimler-Benz DB 605B...398 mph at optimum altitude.

    Saab 21R with 3,307-lb thrust Swedish built De Havilland Goblin-3 turbojet...497 mph at 25,245 ft.
     
  11. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    If you are talking about difference in speed of in service models then I am sure the 109 has the prize.
    If your talking about prototypes to production increase then my money is on the SAAB Draken. The prototype didn't have an afterburning engine, production ones did. No idea what the difference was, but its going to be many hundreds of miles an hour.
     
  12. Elvis

    Elvis Member

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    The way I understand it, the 109 is simply a 108 with the fuselage narrowed and the cockpit rearranged for single pilot seating only, and that big ol' V-12 stuffed under the hood.
    So if you look at the 108 as the parent airframe, the difference in speed now increases to 280 MPH, making the "...H-1" varient of the 109 just a tick over 2.5 times faster than the parent BF-108 airframe.

    I know of no other aircraft made around that time that would have encountered anything close to that.



    Elvis
     
  13. AL Schlageter

    AL Schlageter Banned

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    How about the Spiteful, 483mph.:shock:
     
  14. davparlr

    davparlr Well-Known Member

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    Not good enough. The spitfire prototype flew at 335 mph (before prop modifications). That makes this ratio 1.44, below the Bf-109. The hp increase of the Bf-109 was large, starting out around 800 hp going up to 1800 hp+(?). It is a tribute to both the Bf-109 and spitfire design that they could upgrade to such high performance levels (although with considerable modifications).
     
  15. Marshall_Stack

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    How about the ME323? From Glider to Transport?
     
  16. bigZ

    bigZ Member

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    Me 163 from glider prototype to rocket?
     
  17. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    #17 Colin1, Oct 29, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
    Just noticed someone reading this
    This type of competition is going to favour a pre-war aircraft that managed to see it through to the end of the war. When the P-51, F4U, Tempest et al entered the fray they were already fast, this coupled with the fact that any further development would quickly bang up against the limits of what was possible using a piston engine, they had a smaller margin to improve performance in.

    I think it is worth noting that the Spitfire, though it kept its name throughout its development life, wasn't anything like the same aircraft under the skin at the end of its run that it started out as, though the subsequent marks were clearly descended from the previous model.

    Hawkers on the other hand, though the Typhoon was just as clearly descended from the Hurricane, had the decency to call it something else; from the Typhoon sprang the Tempest and then the Fury.

    In my own opinion, I'd say the development from Hurricane to Tempest should get a look-in.
     
  18. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure why the Spitfire gets such a bad rap for evolving the way it did.
    Granted a MK I and MK 21 have little in common but until the MK 21 there is a lot more in common that some people give credit for.

    Try taking a 109 "C" airframe and turning it into a "K" and see how far you get.

    P-47 "N" gets a whole new wing and nobody says "BOO" .

    As far as the Hawker series goes, the Sea Hawk jet has a vertical fin and rudder with a strong Hawker family resemblance but I don't think anybody is going to claim it is really related to the Hurricane:lol:
     
  19. drgondog

    drgondog Well-Known Member

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    And the P-51H is a complete re-design with essentially only a handful of common parts.
     
  20. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    Who said anything about a bad rap?

    Does that not reinforce my point somewhat?

    Feel free to discuss the P-47, I'm listening

    If my memory serves me, the OP did stipulate 'any other WW2 aircraft'
     
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