Boulton Paul Defiant Rationale

fastmongrel said:

Which obsolescent aircraft capable of towing a drogue at 250mph did the RAF have handy in large numbers.

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I don't think they were towing drogues at 250 mph.

Aircraft from the Miles Master to the Henley to the Lysander, Battle and Defiant (and probably some others) were used.

Despite the seeming availability of many such aircraft there was a chronic shortage of tugs which endued well into 1942.

Cheers

Steve

One wonders how well the Defiants would have done against Bf 110s?

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Between the 24th and 29th May, Defiant gunners claimed 8+ Bf 110s. Geez, you could at least try do some research.

The Defiant was also a successful night fighter and proved itself worthy of the task. I feel like reading through this thread we are just trodding familiar ground that reaches the same conclusions that we reach with every thread on the Defiant.

The problem we have is that even though the heads in the Ministry knew about the Daffy's faults, they couldn't not use it in 1940 as by their own calculations the RAF did not have enough fighters. Where they went wrong was using the Defiants in the same manner as a single seater. It would have been best served defending areas in the north and Scotland, where single seat opposition would not be encountered.

from Wiki so take it for what you think it is worth;

"On 27 May 264 Squadron claimed three He 111 and two damaged. On 28 May, shortly after take-off, 10 Defiants were attacked by about 30 Bf 109s – forming a circle, they claimed six German fighters for the loss of three Defiants. The Defiant was initially successful against enemy aircraft and its best day was 29 May, when No. 264 Squadron claimed 37 kills in two sorties: 19 Ju 87 Stukas, mostly picked off as they came out of their dives, nine Messerschmitt Bf 110 twin-engined heavy fighters, eight Bf 109s and a Ju-88; one Defiant gunner was lost after he bailed out, although the aircraft made it back to its base to be repaired.[21] On 31 May, seven Defiants were lost in one day"

However
" Although 264 Squadron claimed 48 kills in eight days over Dunkirk, the cost was high with 14 Defiants lost. Actual German losses were no more than 12–15 enemy aircraft; the turret's wide angle of fire meant that several Defiants could engage the same target at one time, leading to multiple claims."

I am afraid the Defiants usefulness against the 110 is in some doubt. They did, undoubtedly, shoot down some. Whether it is at a 1 to 1 ratio or higher or lower is subject to question/further research. Like many air battles of limited numbers and duration the sample may be too small to draw a valid conclusion from.

I am afraid the Defiants usefulness against the 110 is in some doubt. They did, undoubtedly, shoot down some. Whether it is at a 1 to 1 ratio or higher or lower is subject to question/further research. Like many air battles of limited numbers and duration the sample may be too small to draw a valid conclusion from.

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Indeed that is probably true, but also for almost every other combat aircraft in limitied useage within a period of heavy action. Judging the Defiant's 'usefulness' against the Bf 110 is probably difficult because there was no one-on-one, but again, circumstances account for perception. Had several things been different about its employment during the Battle of France and Britain, then we would remember the Defiant somewhat differently. This is the key. I've looked at log books, photographs and read accounts by pilots and gunners and not all of them are negative about it at the time, in fact, the overwhelming sense is that pilots regarded it highly. There were those who didn't, but thats not surprising, particularly if they started in single seaters. The bad reputation it has today is largely a post war creation, spurred by the official account of the Battle of Britain that perpetuated a few of the long held myths about it.

We also tend to forget that between December 1939 and August 1940 there were two squadrons, from the end of 1940 to mid 1942 there were up to sixteen squadrons equipped with it (this differs in the telling, some say 13). yes, as a stop gap it was, but it did the job admirably under the circumstances. That means that for two thirds of its career as a front line fighter, it was successful in its role as a specialised night fighter.

There's no doubt the turret fighter was a dead end, but the Defiant was still a good aeroplane that did its job well.