BUBBLE CANOPIES - 'Pre-Historic' Beginnings...

[xylstra]

The Bubble Canopy - Pre-Historic' Beginnings .....
I'm hoping I can find a walking encyclopaedia of information on the early origins (pre-1920, say) of the 'Bubble' canopy (and, not necessarily just aircraft, e.g. automobiles, motorcycle sidecars, dirigibles, etc). I was intrigued by the obscure mention of WW1 experiments with aircraft bubble Canopies contained in the "History" paragraph in this Wikipvisually reference: https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Bubble_canopy sadly, there are no attributions as to the source of information. Can anyone provide more information on these WW1 aircraft experiments, e.g. names of books, magazine articles, newspaper clippings, patents (especially), pictures, etc?
Yes, I'm perfectly well aware of the SE5 first production series although it appeared with what may more accurately described as a transparent, wrap-around wind-deflector as opposed to an overhead, transparent canopy, or hood. I'm also well aware of the German experiments with 'stealth' aircraft with transparent fueselage and wing coverings but still, they had open cockpits.
So, I look forward to all interesting replies. Thanks.

 

[MiTasol]

A great question

The earliest I can think of with the concept is the Ki-43 but I am sure many will respond with much earlier examples

 

[xylstra]

A great question

The earliest I can think of with the concept is the Ki-43 but I am sure many will respond with much earlier examples

Hi MiTasol, Thanks for that but I'm afraid that's well after midnight for the time-scale I'm interested in. WW1 (or before), WW2 is well-trodden territory. Early days, we'll see what else might turn up. Cheers.

 

[GrauGeist]

We have to keep in mind that from WWI through the inter-war period, the vast majority of of aircraft cockpits were open, with little more than a windscreen to provide protection to the pilot, from the elements. Even at the start of WWII, aircraft like the the TB-3, Hs123, I-16, He112, Gladiator and such, were open cockpits.

It was typically racing aircraft in the late 20's and early 30's that employed a canopy which was not for the pilot's benefit, but rather for the sake of aerodynamics.

This is where you should be looking in your search.

 

[xylstra]

We have to keep in mind that from WWI through the inter-war period, the vast majority of of aircraft cockpits were open, with little more than a windscreen to provide protection to the pilot, from the elements. Even at the start of WWII, aircraft like the the TB-3, Hs123, I-16, He112, Gladiator and such, were open cockpits.

It was typically racing aircraft in the late 20's and early 30's that employed a canopy which was not for the pilot's benefit, but rather for the sake of aerodynamics.

This is where you should be looking in your search.

Hi GrauGeist, You need to look at the Wikivisual link. Already know most post-WW1 history on the subject. Only interested in pre-1920 bubble-canopy experiments. Have a look at the attachment re-streamlining - 1910!! The search goes on.......
Cheers.

 

[GrauGeist]

Ok, first of all...you're using "wiki visually"...that is perhaps the worst source for research I can think of.

Secondly, you're showing me a photo of a bicyclist with a "streamlined" contraption. Seriously...I just told you to look for the speed record aircraft as a source for canopy development.

There were modern military aircraft that fought in the Spanish Civil war with open cockpits. If you think that you're going to find a "bubble canopy" in a military aircraft before the late 1930's, you'll be coming up empty-handed.

Look to the air-speed record aircraft instead. This is where you will find a wealth of canopy development and again, as I said earlier, it was not for pilot comfort but instead for improved aerodynamics.

 

[Graeme]

The search goes on.......

Have a look at the RAF S.E.4 of 1914. At one point it was fitted with a moulded celluloid cockpit - but pilots distrusted it and removed it.

Royal Aircraft Factory S.E.4 - Wikipedia

 

[Graeme]

The ultimate "bubble" canopy....

 

[The Basket]

Bubble canopy as in one piece or like the Zero with multiple frames?

The Overstrand had a very good canopy for visibility.

 

[Shortround6]

Dayton Wright RB-1 fully enclosed but hardly a "bubble" 1920

Curtiss-Cox Texas Wildcat 1920

At least the pilot could look up.

quick look at the pre WW II race planes shows very few (including these) had fully enclosed cockpits until the early 30s. 1932-34 seems to the transition era.
It doesn't appear that any Schneider Trophy racer used a fully enclosed cockpit let alone a bubble

Many racers had truly horrible vision from the cockpit.
But the canopies showed much more emphasis on reduced drag than vision

Canopy of the Caudron 460 replica, original won the 1936 Thompson race.

The 1916 this plane existed for a very short period of time.

but hardly a bubble canopy. However the actual technology to build a WW II style bubble may not have existed.

They managed to collapse or have ripped off an number of more conventional canopies.

 

[EDFN]

I think the point was the development of suitable materials. These had to be
- light;
- of good optical quality;
- scratch resistant (!);
- ductile;
- fairly cheap.
The answer was Perspex, but the development of blown canopies obviously took it´s time until the late 1930-ies. Even racers like the De Havilland DH.88 Comet, T.K.4 or the Percival Mew Gull still had framed canopies with Perspex parts that were bent onedimensinally (not spherical). Even early Spitfires still had straight thru main canopies.

 

[thunderbird]

Only peripherally related. Something I found many years ago. Oddly enough, perspex was developed by a German company in the mid-thirties. The German company had offices overseas, I know for sure in New York, and probably London as well, where the technology propagated. The Germans, despite developing the material, didn't use it to make bubble canopies like the allies did.

 

[xylstra]

Have a look at the RAF S.E.4 of 1914. At one point it was fitted with a moulded celluloid cockpit - but pilots distrusted it and removed it.

Royal Aircraft Factory S.E.4 - Wikipedia


View attachment 540608

Thanks Graeme, good man! That's what I'm looking for! The initial SE.4 as first issued to frontline pilots (as I understood it) had a transparent wind-deflector surround so maybe the fully-enclosed hood illustrated was a another experimental prototype they tried and discarded. I don't have much proficiency with the patent database but perhaps someone reading this who does may be able to do a search from this early 'pre-historic' period. It may fill-in a lot of otherwise 'missing' technical history. Thanks again.

 

[xylstra]

Dayton Wright RB-1 fully enclosed but hardly a "bubble" 1920
View attachment 540663

Curtiss-Cox Texas Wildcat 1920
View attachment 540664
At least the pilot could look up.

quick look at the pre WW II race planes shows very few (including these) had fully enclosed cockpits until the early 30s. 1932-34 seems to the transition era.
It doesn't appear that any Schneider Trophy racer used a fully enclosed cockpit let alone a bubble
View attachment 540665
Many racers had truly horrible vision from the cockpit.
But the canopies showed much more emphasis on reduced drag than vision
View attachment 540666
Canopy of the Caudron 460 replica, original won the 1936 Thompson race.

The 1916 this plane existed for a very short period of time.
View attachment 540667
but hardly a bubble canopy. However the actual technology to build a WW II style bubble may not have existed.

They managed to collapse or have ripped off an number of more conventional canopies.

Thanks "Shortround6", That last photo was most useful to my research. As you've read, I've one or two naysayers (no doubt they're now choking down a large piece of humble pie!) but I've learnt from long experience in researching these obscure technical subjects to never underestimate just how early these ideas emerged. Thanks again.

 

[fubar57]

This.....................is useful for bubble canopy reasearch? Wow!!!!!

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's later than the target period, but the Curtiss XP-31 Swift is apparently the first enclosed canopy figher/pursuit plane.

 

[tyrodtom]

Only 3 or 4 SE 4 's or 4a's were made. I don't think any made over the channel to France.
The early SE-5's had a sort of canopy that surrounded the front of the cockpit, but was open at the rear.
Pilots didn't like it either, so it wasn't installed thereafter.

 

[xylstra]

It's later than the target period, but the Curtiss XP-31 Swift is apparently the first enclosed canopy figher/pursuit plane.

View attachment 567364

Great photo! But sorry to disappoint: the S.E.5 is still the first. The combat issue version had an open-top wrap-around 'wind-deflector' but prior to this they test-flew a prototype with a fully-enclosed hood. Seen a drawing but would still like to see a photo. Cheers, Xylstra.

 

[fubar57]

Going through the Windsock book and this book....

​

So far, no drawing or photo

 

[xylstra]

Going through the Windsock book and this book....

View attachment 568108
​

So far, no drawing or photo

Thanks Fubar, it's not uncommon (and sadly frustrating) that many publications that present as authoritative aren't nearly as well researched as perhaps they should be. I had previously seen photographs of the final open-top version some time ago but only the drawing of the prior closed-top canopy. Who knows, maybe someone will pull a rabbit out of the hat! Cheers, Xylstra.