the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
what i meant was the CA-15 looks huge compared to WWII fighters and doesn't look that powerful, whereas the SeaFury does...........
CAC CA-15 Kangaroo
- Thread starter Desert Fox
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
- Thread starter
- #22
Desert Fox
Senior Airman
True, the CA-15 wasnt exactly the sleekest of aircraft like the Sea Fury was, but it was still a damn good plane
GregP
Major
The CAC-15 was designed initially for the R-2800 radial, but the U.S.A. declined to supply them, so it was adapted for the Rolls-Royce Griffon of 2,035 HP. First flight 1946. Australia realized the future belonged to jets and abandoned the project.
The 505 mph was achieved in a shallow dive. It amde 448 mph in level flight and military power. Only 1 was made.
Probably ranks with the Martin-Baker MB.5 as the best piston fighter never built.
The 505 mph was achieved in a shallow dive. It amde 448 mph in level flight and military power. Only 1 was made.
Probably ranks with the Martin-Baker MB.5 as the best piston fighter never built.
For more info on not just this amazing aircraft, but two other indigenous australian aircraft, look for a book called "Wirraway, Boomerang, CA-15 in Australian Service' by Stewart Wilson. This book is an absolute gold mine of info on these aircraft. The -15 is on of my all-time favourite aircraft. I think it might still be available for purchase on Australian Aviation magazine, but I'm not 100% certain. I bought it the day it came out in the paper shop when I was 13 (1991).
abramsteve
Airman
Sure does look big, but so was the P-47. To me it looks big, mean and sleak, I love it! I read about this one a few years ago in a RAAF book, Im gonna head over that other thread to check out what been said.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Does one exist today either static or (less likely) flying?
Wildcat
Major
Nope unfortunately not.
wombat40
Airman
The speed referred to was achieved after leveling from a shallow dive over Melbourne, however a level flight of 448 mph was achieved routinely. Most Americans I have discussed this aircraft with like to point out the resemblance to the P51 (license built as the CA 17 with the same type 61 Griffon as fitted to the CA 15). However, I have seen some excellent scale 3 view drawings online comparing it to a P 51. The resemblance it barely superficial (bubble canopy of a different shape, long nose but different shape and a similar intake beneath). The aircraft is larger than the P51/CA 17 in all respects and the general consensus among the test pilots involved regarded it as a superior Griffon installation to both the Spitfire and the P 51. Sadly it was made in Australia, in any other country it would have ended up in a museum, here we scrapped it.
wombat40
Airman
oh, and as ex Fleet Air Arm airmen, I can assure you it was in fact FASTER than the Sea Fury
wombat40
Airman
oh yes, sorry guys, if I make that kind of assertion I should back it up. I see a Wkikpedia entry giving the Sea Fury speed as 485 mph, this is I believe fanciful (maybe after a dive, a la CA 15) but I see other entries on other sites and my own books giving the Sea Fury a top speed in level flight as 435 mph. During my service I managed to speak to several senior officers (ex Sea Fury pilots) who stated an operational top speed of between 430 and 440 mph. I think the accolades went to the Hawker design because for a long time the CA 15 was simply dead and buried. If I was a millionaire+ I would love to commission a replica
Butters
Senior Airman
The CA-15 has rather brutal good looks, but the MB.5 is flat-out, drop-dead gorgeous!
And it would have shortened the war if it had been available. Who could shoot at something that pretty? ;o)
And it would have shortened the war if it had been available. Who could shoot at something that pretty? ;o)
wombat40
Airman
As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, beside the CA 15, the Mustang looks a little effeminite
red admiral
Senior Airman
- 479
- Mar 24, 2005
The 485mph quoted speed for the Hawker Fury is correct. This was for the first aircraft, fitted with a Sabre engine and radiators in the wing leading edges. Max speed for the Sea Fury X with Centaurus was 460mph (probably slowed a far amount when carrying underwing tanks and racks to the 430-440mph you quote). There's some nice performance charts here.
As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, beside the CA 15, the Mustang looks a little effeminite
Looks very similar in design. Gotta be some similarities in the design. However, it could be that the math just brought the engineers to the same place.
The CA looks like the Mustang's Husband.
Heinz
Captain
Certainly a favourite of mine.
Someone in the thread referred to the Gov not wanting to pay for them to go into production, I think it was more the fact the jet age had well and truly come in. At the time I think Australia was receiving its first lot Meteors and Vamp's and bad timing brought its demise. I've got an article about it in 'Flightpath'. Good read.
Someone in the thread referred to the Gov not wanting to pay for them to go into production, I think it was more the fact the jet age had well and truly come in. At the time I think Australia was receiving its first lot Meteors and Vamp's and bad timing brought its demise. I've got an article about it in 'Flightpath'. Good read.
mkloby
Senior Master Sergeant
Looks very similar in design. Gotta be some similarities in the design. However, it could be that the math just brought the engineers to the same place.
The CA looks like the Mustang's Husband.
wombat40
Airman
Looking back over the drawings I first posted, the biggest similarity appears to be in the wing, at least in plan. It would be interesting if anyone has any drawings dating from it first concept (radial engine). The reason I state this is that as I have said, P51 were ultimately license built here as the CA 17 (griffon) and I am wondering if the wing was modified to copy the P51/CA17 laminar flow design?
The first I ever saw of this aircraft was in my early teens (early 70's) in a British magazine called "Aircraft Illustrated" (sadly I lost all my copies in the Clarence River flood of 1974). It was written up in an article entitled "Antipodean Venture" there was one photo, of the crashed prototype lying on its belly, and then speculation as to whether or not it was the fastest (inconclusive).
The other time it was mentioned was in the press about the same time, a large mural (no longer displayed) was painted for the aeroplane hall in the Australian War Memorial (if you do not know, there was and still is an entire Lancaster in this hall plus other aircraft, so it was a big mural in a big room, saw it, the mural, twice)
The rendering of the CA 15 can only be described as insignificant.
Original test pilot's report is still available (National Archive). As to whether is it was the fastest or among the fastest or COULD HAVE BEEN the fastest is conjectural. There is no mention (that I recall) of a genuine high speed test or combat boost ever being carried out. I use the words COULD HAVE BEEN because the fitment of a Griffon 61 was interim, it was actually proposed to use the still under development Griffon 120. The 120 went the same way as the CA 15, due to the jet age.
As for what the Sea Fury did, in practice, theory, stripped or loaded, it still was able to down one MIG (Lt Peter Carmichael, HMS Ocean) so what ever it could do, it did well enough.
Oh, and our A4Gs were supersonic too, but only if you flew them in a way that they were never flown in operationally.
Sorry this is so long winded guys, I have had a really big cup of coffee this morning
The first I ever saw of this aircraft was in my early teens (early 70's) in a British magazine called "Aircraft Illustrated" (sadly I lost all my copies in the Clarence River flood of 1974). It was written up in an article entitled "Antipodean Venture" there was one photo, of the crashed prototype lying on its belly, and then speculation as to whether or not it was the fastest (inconclusive).
The other time it was mentioned was in the press about the same time, a large mural (no longer displayed) was painted for the aeroplane hall in the Australian War Memorial (if you do not know, there was and still is an entire Lancaster in this hall plus other aircraft, so it was a big mural in a big room, saw it, the mural, twice)
The rendering of the CA 15 can only be described as insignificant.
Original test pilot's report is still available (National Archive). As to whether is it was the fastest or among the fastest or COULD HAVE BEEN the fastest is conjectural. There is no mention (that I recall) of a genuine high speed test or combat boost ever being carried out. I use the words COULD HAVE BEEN because the fitment of a Griffon 61 was interim, it was actually proposed to use the still under development Griffon 120. The 120 went the same way as the CA 15, due to the jet age.
As for what the Sea Fury did, in practice, theory, stripped or loaded, it still was able to down one MIG (Lt Peter Carmichael, HMS Ocean) so what ever it could do, it did well enough.
Oh, and our A4Gs were supersonic too, but only if you flew them in a way that they were never flown in operationally.
Sorry this is so long winded guys, I have had a really big cup of coffee this morning
Wildcat
Major
From the stewart Wilson book...
Attachments
red admiral
Senior Airman
- 479
- Mar 24, 2005
wombat40
Airman
Thanks for the drawings guys, so the first concept was for a different wing (in plan form). It is my understanding that Wackett had a huge input into the design (it was his proposal to go with the radial) so it still leaves the question open as to whether or not the wing design was ultimately a copy of the P51 (drawn from combat experience and in my view very likely) or "an arrival at the same design using the math" as has been put. In any case, what a shame, I would still like to be rich enough and eccentric enough to commission a replica (lol)
