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Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
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It helps to try to figure what could have done differently with Knowledge (mostly) available at the time in question, and with the resources available at the time (engines, fuel, electronics, etc). Telling us how wonderful the F6F was (and it was wonderful) in mid 1943 doesn't help with the RNs problems in 1939-early 1943.
If you don't have a 1600-2000hp engine available in 1939-42 then you have to figure out what the limits are (fewer guns, less speed, less range).
Gloster F.4/34 should be taken out to sea, shot, stabbed, chained to a big anchor and filled with cement.
It's performance was about as believable as the XP-77 being a "tri-four fighter" 400 horsepower / 400 miles per hour / 4000 pound weight targets for the design.
I also know that answering these questions will fail to make the lightbulb over your head flash on, but I have a lot in common with sysiphus. I knew this thread would devolve into yet another "battle of the Atlantic" for some people, becauuse it implies that some British people, somewhere, at some time, may have made an error in judgement. At least it was a bit productive for a minute.
No internet in 1938-39As for what they could have known, as someone (I think Admiral Beez?) noted already just upthread a little, all they had to do is look at what the Japanese and US were doing and realize that a two seat fighter wasn't a great idea. Maybe they didn't see that clearly in 1938, but certainly by the time the Firefly was being designed it should have been clear.
Ok, in 1939 what are your options for a British engine?I've been arguing, throughout this thread, in post after post, that they didn't need to wait for a 2,000 hp engine and that waiting for one or planning an aircraft around it was one of the key mistakes they actually made.
If you want a single seat fighter with a 3 hour endurance then trying to figure out a way to extend a 2 hour single seat fighter to 3 hours (or a bit more?) may very well be a better alternative than trying to shrink down a large, heavy plane.AIUI, we're seeking to make a smaller, single-seat Fulmar not a better Seafire or Sea Hurricane. But most of the thread seems to want to debate the latter two aircraft. But what of the Fulmar?
So why the appearance that you don't know these things with the comments you make? Posting stuff like this for example doesn't help you one single bit. Don't waste people's time. When you say stuff like this your discussion isn't reasoned, it's just you taking cheap shots. Grow up.
Hey Wild_Bill_Kelso,
re "You think I never heard of slipper tanks? Buahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Those heavy, cumbersome things are dragged out every single time someone points out that the Spitfire, Hurricane, Seafire or the Sea Hurricane had poor range and endurance. Try tangling with a Bf 109, MC 202, A6M, or Ki-43 with a slipper tank aboard."
??
The Seafire would not have fought the enemy aircraft with slipper tank aboard. The 30 Impgal thru 90 Impgal slipper tanks were used as range/endurance increasing drop tanks, and would be released at/before combat just like under-wing and/or under-fuselage drop tanks on the SeaHurricane, F4F/F6F,F4U, Bf109, and MC.202, etc (not sure if the Ki-43 carried theirs into the dogfight like the A6M did).
The one ferry version of the 90 Impgal DT for the Hurricane and the 170 Impgal slipper that was used with the 29 Impgal tank behind the pilot in the Spitfire, that were not intended to be dropped, though both the 90 Impgal and 170 Impgal ferry tanks could be dropped in emergencies.
As far as I know the SeaHurricane only used the 45 Impgal under-wing DTs for combat missions, while the Seafire only used the 30 & 45 Impgal slipper DTs for combat missions.
re "certain individuals can't let go of the notion that these were just fine, ideal carrier fighters for the FAA."
I may have missed something up-thread, but I do not remember anyone having said or implied that the SeaHurricane or Seafire were ideal fighters for the FAA.
Fairey MonarchIf you don't have a 1600-2000hp engine available in 1939-42
Interesting points about other aircraft. But what's any of that got to do with a smaller, single seat Fulmar?The Seafire would not have fought the enemy aircraft with slipper tank aboard.
The Sea Hurricane only used the 45 Impgal under-wing DTs for combat missions,
What are the "specs" for the smaller, single seat Fulmar?But what's any of that got to do with a smaller, single seat Fulmar
Date, May 1940.Fairey Monarch
View attachment 743790
I also know that answering these questions will fail to make the lightbulb over your head flash on, but I have a lot in common with sysiphus. I knew this thread would devolve into yet another "battle of the Atlantic" for some people, becauuse it implies that some British people, somewhere, at some time, may have made an error in judgement. At least it was a bit productive for a minute.
Burn him! He's a witch!You dared to criticize the Spitfire.