Canada to Purchase 65 F-35s

Maestro · Jul 26, 2010

Lucky13 said:
What F-18's is it that Canada have? A/B's, C/D's, if it's any of those, why not buy the E/F's then? Probably alot better than the old version, they have better electronics etc., and are cheaper than the F-35.

That part I don't know... I just know they are pretty old.

Lucky13 · Jul 26, 2010

Just seen some of it mate, they were offered the F-18E/F, but went for the F-35 instead! I think that I'd have gone for the Super Hornet instead myself....
Still a very good and modern aircraft, but......next day delivery pretty much! How long will the CAF have to wait for the '35 to be delivered?

Catch22 · Jul 26, 2010

Lucky13 said:
What F-18's is it that Canada have? A/B's, C/D's, if it's any of those, why not buy the E/F's then? Probably alot better than the old version, they have better electronics etc., and are cheaper than the F-35.

Just seen some of it mate, they were offered the F-18E/F, but went for the F-35 instead! I think that I'd have gone for the Super Hornet instead myself....
Still a very good and modern aircraft, but......next day delivery pretty much! How long will the CAF have to wait for the '35 to be delivered?

Jan, they are A/B's upgraded to C/D standard. We first started receiving them in 1982, so the airframes themselves are 28 years old. A CF-18 just crashed last week actually, they don't know the cause yet, but it's thought it was mechanical. The pilot ejected safely though, though he has some compression fractures in his spine but will be fine and return to duty.

I originally thought the Superhornet may be a better buy for us, but as I've looked at things more the F-35 IS what we need, but I see Maestro's point in that maybe we should have a two type fighter fleet, much like it was with the CF-101s and CF-104s. So perhaps cut back on a few of the F-35s and buy some Superhornets as well? Hell, perhaps we can keep pushing the CF-18, though that may not be feasible. I just hope the deal gets through all of the political nonsense.

EDIT: We'd have to wait till 2017 to take delivery Jan.

Maestro · Jul 27, 2010

Nah... What I'm saying is keep the F-35s (all of them) and find a second plane to add to the fleet. I think a two-types fighter fleet would be great.

Catch22 · Jul 27, 2010

Ah k. Yeah, I agree with that too, but you know they'll never budget for that.

Lucky13 · Jul 27, 2010

7 years!? Will the F-18's survive that?

Marcel · Jul 27, 2010

looney said:
Biggest problem is what our 50 F-35 will be doing? They are not Stealty ( the dutch are goin to use it's internal weapon bays as fuel tanks * TSSSSS* ), they are only gonna be used as either patrol aircraft (identfiing civilian planes above The Netherlands), or as bombers in Afganistan. Where they can only service a few. We can't use the fighters as defence (not enough to do the job, specially cause we are goin to loose 1 airbase (Leeuwarden)), and as bombers we don't need such an expensive aircraft. As they will be fighting Taliban or similar (meaning no heavy AA weapons).

P.s. I heared form an old F16 maintenance guy our F16's aren't allowed to pull more than 6 G above The Netherlands and 8 above Afganistan.. They are old, but still way more cost effective than a F35 ever will be.

Yup, fully agreed. If they have to be replaced, I still think the Grippen would be a worthy successor as well. I believe they're quite a bit cheaper.

michaelmaltby · Jul 27, 2010

"... I still think the Grippen would be a worthy successor as well. I believe they're quite a bit cheaper. "

Can't see Canada buying Gippens, Marcel. No "off-sets" likely when dealing with a Swedish manufacturer and the quantity would not be large.

Australia probably got it right .... Super F-18s to tide them over till the F-35s come on stream.

MM

Lucky13 · Jul 27, 2010

For the sake of the discussion, how many Gripens would you get, for the price of the 65 F-35's?

michaelmaltby · Jul 27, 2010

Lucky13 I haven't a clue - but I'd guess 2.5 Grippens for each F-35

MM

Marcel · Jul 27, 2010

Lucky13 said:
For the sake of the discussion, how many Gripens would you get, for the price of the 65 F-35's?

Last year, The Dutch got an offer for 85 Grippen, for €4.800.000.000 (4.8 bilion), the order for 85 F35's was aproximately €6.100.000.000 (6.1 billion). So you could roughly buy 108 Grippen for the price of 85 F35's.

Lucky13 · Jul 27, 2010

A fair difference fellas!

Catch22 · Jul 27, 2010

Yes. In this situation though there are so many factors other than cost however, such as production contracts within Canada and stuff like that.

Maestro · Jul 28, 2010

Catch22 said:
Yes. In this situation though there are so many factors other than cost however, such as production contracts within Canada and stuff like that.

Yeah... I heard on the radio an expert explaining that with all of the production contracts put together, we would roughly make a $1,000,000,000 net income. (In other words, we would get those planes for free plus $1 billion dollars going straight in our pockets.)

This can easily be explained by the fact that the USAF ordered 200 new F-35s and that Canadian industries would be making parts for them also.

Lucky13 · Jul 28, 2010

Seeing that BAe Systems is involved, isn't that in a way working against Gripen, which they're supposed to sell as well? How does this work??

gjs238 · Jul 28, 2010

Australia's choice of Super Hornet seems wise, and would be an excellent interim choice for Canada as well.
Super Hornet dual-engine, long range, tanker capability, etc, etc, etc seem well suited for missions over the vast expanses of Canada as well as expeditionary missions.

BombTaxi · Jul 28, 2010

Lucky13 said:
Seeing that BAe Systems is involved, isn't that in a way working against Gripen, which they're supposed to sell as well? How does this work??

I guess BaE will push whichever product best fits the bill. It's like walking into a car showroom - the salesman will always try to sell you the car that suits your needs, then load it with extras, rather than something dearer (making him more money), that you don't want. Better to make a bit less than nothing at all old chap! 8)

EDIT: To clarify, I know the JSF id more expensive 'per unit' at face value, than the Gripen, but the money Canada will get from BaE for building parts of the JSF will offset the difference, so effectively BaE are selling a 'cheaper' option to secure a sale, rather than selling the Gripen and making greater gross profit. And if that makes sense, I'll get another beer!

Waynos · Jul 28, 2010

BAE dissolved their partnership with SAAB and walked away from the Gripen couple or so years ago, which was a shame.

Lucky13 · Jul 29, 2010

Waynos said:
BAE dissolved their partnership with SAAB and walked away from the Gripen couple or so years ago, which was a shame.

They did? Didn't know that!

Admiral Beez · Jan 7, 2023

And now these bozos….

No Fighter Jets Coalition protests Canada’s planned F-35 purchase

OTTAWA - A group called the No Fighter Jets Coalition is holding weekend rallies to oppose Ottawa’s plans to buy F-35 strike fighters.

www.thestar.com

Do they want the RCAF to follow the RNZAF and drop any fighter capability whatsoever?

Canada to Purchase 65 F-35s

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