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Ironically the title was CINCUS but it was objected to because it would read as "Sink us". I'm surprised they didn't go with CINCNAV.Of course at the top of the chain is the CNO or COMINCH, which was Ernie King.
But there was no Commander Naval Air Forces?There would be a theater commander, for Example CINPAC Chester Nimitz. Below this level in the pacific JH Towers was Commander of Naval Air Forces pacific under Nimitz.
What's AIRSOLS stand for?Below this level JS McCain was AIRSOLS at Noumea during the Solomons campaign.
That part I actually know... the issue is what happened above the air-group level, basically.fleet based aircraft were generally under a group squadron command under a CAG, or Commander Air Group. The squadrons would each be such as Fighter, Torpedo or Scout/Bomber. The CAG was at the time under command of the ships Captain, who would be under the direction of an admiral in command of the task group or sub group.
That's interesting, modern day usually an air-wing is assigned to a ship...Originally a carrier's air grope was assigned to that ship but as the war wore on and new ships and groups were formed and replacement groups rotated in and out this no longer held.
That's actually interesting, though I suppose when you consider they started out as scouting planes on battleships, it kind of makes sense that if that idea was followed, you'd have a decentralized set-up.The Naval Aviators were in effect under the tactical command of whatever units they were assigned to work with. I think this ensured better harmony of purpose and utilization. For instance the Navy Pilots on Guadalcanal were under Roy Geiger, USMC. The upper levels of the shore based command structure were mostly administrative.
Okay, AIR SOLomanS...AIRSOLS was command of the air forces in the Solomons, Hdqrs based in Noumea under John S (Slew) McCain
Until 1986... I'm not sure why they set things up like they did: It seemed a bad idea.The CAG of a carrier air group in WWII was usually a full Commander, who might actually lead the group into action. An Example was the Navu's leading Ace, David McCampbell.
On a per deployment basis. The air wing doesn't "belong" permanently to the ship. It is assigned there for a deployment, and often for several consecutive deployments. Between deployments the air wing "dissolves" and the various squadrons disperse to their "home" naval air stations to train for the next deployment while the ship undergoes maintenance and refit at its home port.That's interesting, modern day usually an air-wing is assigned to a ship.
Generally there was a theatre or regional Commander Naval Air, such as COMNAVAIRLANT and then something like (don't know the exact title) Vice CNO for Air. This chain of command would be responsible for training, procurement, support, and administration functions, while operational tactical command would be through task force, regional, and theatre commands. (COMTF38 -> COMFAIRSOLS -> COMFAIRPAC -> CINCPAC -> CNO.But there was no Commander Naval Air Forces?
No, I already got that -- what I meant is that CVW-11 for example is not forever tied to CVN-65 (if I recall this arrangement was in 1986 -- somebody made some patches that had "Mobile Chernobyl" on it -- boy, the top brass had *no* sense of humor about that...).On a per deployment basis.
So, VCNO (Air) is like the quivalent of Commanding General of the Army Air Corps, essentially?Generally there was a theatre or regional Commander Naval Air, such as COMNAVAIRLANT and then something like (don't know the exact title) Vice CNO for Air.
Yeah, something like that. I'm not sure of the title (WAY, WAY above my pay grade). Maybe something like COMNAVBUAER?So, VCNO (Air) is like the quivalent of Commanding General of the Army Air Corps, essentially?
On a per deployment basis. The air wing doesn't "belong" permanently to the ship. It is assigned there for a deployment, and often for several consecutive deployments. Between deployments the air wing "dissolves" and the various squadrons disperse to their "home" naval air stations to train for the next deployment while the ship undergoes maintenance and refit at its home port.
Generally there was a theatre or regional Commander Naval Air, such as COMNAVAIRLANT and then something like (don't know the exact title) Vice CNO for Air. This chain of command would be responsible for training, procurement, support, and administration functions, while operational tactical command would be through task force, regional, and theatre commands. (COMTF38 -> COMFAIRSOLS -> COMFAIRPAC -> CINCPAC -> CNO.
Alphabet soup. Got it?
Cheers,
Wes
Except in aviation the administrative and tactical chains of command converge at the squadron/air wing level. When the squadron is fragged (tasked) with a mission, the Squadron CO selects the A/Cs and crews that will go, and often will lead the mission if their A/C type is tasked with strike leadership.It sounds a lot like how the USN organizes its ships: squadrons are administrative but not tactical; operations are in task units of various sizes where ships are assigned from squadrons.
No commander likes to cede operational control of any portion of his/her assets to another service with different priorities and methods, especially if they perceive a history of abuse of their prerogatives. ("Effing ground pounders just don't understand aviation! Never have, never will!")I suspect the reason the USAAF ended up eschewing maritime operations was the need to coordinate at a tactical level with naval forces in a way that interfered with "the unity of air power," possibly in the same what that effective CAS required such coordination.
I suspect the reason the USAAF ended up eschewing maritime operations was the need to coordinate at a tactical level with naval forces in a way that interfered with "the unity of air power," possibly in the same what that effective CAS required such coordination.
How dumb is that!Up until that time the navy had been prohibited from using land based aircraft for maritime patrol
How dumb is that!
Except in aviation the administrative and tactical chains of command converge at the squadron/air wing level. When the squadron is fragged (tasked) with a mission, the Squadron CO selects the A/Cs and crews that will go, and often will lead the mission if their A/C type is tasked with strike leadership.
No commander likes to cede operational control of any portion of his/her assets to another service with different priorities and methods, especially if they perceive a history of abuse of their prerogatives. ("Effing ground pounders just don't understand aviation! Never have, never will!")
USN/USMC, with their tradition of embedding trained aviators with the troops as FACs, are somewhat less susceptible to this sort of culture clash. But everybody (Army, Navy, Marines) hates being under USAF control. ("Effing high 'n mighty zoomies are too effing big for their britches!")
This from 3 1/2 years on a base that was 34% USN, 32% USAF, 26% Army, and 8% USMC, and the AF wanted to take over and make an AFB.
Cheers,
Wes
I would say it's pretty stupid -- frankly: I think flying boats have their uses. That said, I can't say that land-based aircraft don't have their uses: They often out-performed their seaplane counterparts as they could carry weapons internally using straight-forward arrangements.How dumb is that!
Of course, and that was basically nonsense: The entire goal was to attack targets that supported war-effort (airfields, harbors & docks, railway yards, and oil-refineries, power-generation, etc) and the civilian population and where they resided.Depends on your point of view
In the late 1930s the goal of the USAAF was not to defend the country but to split off from the army and become an independent and equal armed force (if not superior) to the army or navy. . . . The whole rational behind the B-17(or other large bombers), as put out to congress (and public) was defending America's shores far out to sea (bombing invasion fleets) , not bombing foreign lands.
The goal of independent air arms usually was to control everything that flew, but often exemptions either existed or were made for various reasonsWhen an airwar is to be executed the USAF will run it, it's part and parcel of our core competencies. The entire airspace structure, air refueling tracks, targeting, deconfliction of air and ground assets (artillery), asset protection, ETC.
Of course, and that was basically nonsense: The entire goal was to attack targets that supported war-effort (airfields, harbors & docks, railway yards, and oil-refineries, power-generation, etc) and the civilian population and where they resided.
I would say it's pretty stupid -- frankly: I think flying boats have their uses. That said, I can't say that land-based aircraft don't have their uses: They often out-performed their seaplane counterparts as they could carry weapons internally using straight-forward arrangements.
I'd definitely value a flying boat for the following jobs: Rescue, Sub-Hunting, Merchant-Raiding, and missions that require the ability to operate at a fast tempo (able to refuel and re-arm at sea); if I was planning on hammering targets close to land bases, and bombardment of land based targets -- I'd take the land-planes.
ALL aircraft in Germany (and land-based flak) was under control of the Luftwaffe.Luftwaffe: It seemed they got everything except scout-planes used on Naval Warships.
Depends on your point of view