SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I had actually meant documentation but yeah, lots of those planes. It'd been nice if a few more of those planes had been "rescued".
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I wonder how much documentation the Japanese high command, IJN and IJA had. From the Baltic and Russia, the Nazi Einsatzgruppen would send detailed reports back to Berlin on exact numbers of civilians they had murdered. I get the sense the Japanese weren't nearly as bureaucratic, instead just getting on with atrocities without reporting back to some central office.I had actually meant documentation but yeah, lots of those planes. It'd been nice if a few more of those planes had been "rescued".
Had the British and Empire troops known what the Japanese had in store for any captured troops or civilians they might have prepared and trained for a fight to the finish. Instead, about 90% of the 145,000 British forces (and thousands of civilians) in Malaya survived to fall into Japanese hands, where they were tortured and murdered. At Dunkirk, the Germans did the British expectations of defeat no favours - they should have consulted the Chinese on how to fight the Japanese and what to expect if they fail.But yeah, just having fun in Malaya, Nanjing, and points east. Just some good old traditional brutality.
Perhaps you can provide some sources for your claim regarding the A5M-4 being "retired". You were quick to point out the presence of obsolescent RMI fighters, but now you try to reject the obvious and well documented use of obsolescent aircraft by the IJN in 1942. If the IJN hadn't used the A5M-4 then what would they have replaced them with? Zero and most carrier aircraft production was hopelessly inadequate in 1942, forcing the IJNAF to use older types.
So you don't think the IJNAF had large numbers of "flying boats, biplanes, and other obsolete types"? The IJNAF was much more than just the aircraft on their fleet carriers.
This is the conclusion of an article about the 5 April raid:
"It is impossible to say with any degree of confidence what difference it may have made if the Hurricanes and Fulmars had been scrambled in good time, but it seems fair to suppose that they would likely have accomplished more at less cost than they actually did. All four means by which early warning might have been given failed. First, the Catalina that spotted some of the Japanese aircraft failed to recognize or report them. Then the Japanese avoided both the ground warning system and the Fulmar patrol by flying well off the coast during their approach flight. The fourth trip wire, radar, also failed, due to there being only one operational station and to it being sited too far north and suffering from a number of technical and operational problems. The radar failure was undoubtedly crucial. The difference that early warning could make was demonstrated just four days later, when the Japanese attacked Trincomalee. That day, the local radar station detected the Japanese at a range of 91 miles [146 km]. The early warning got the defending fighters airborne in good time and allowed them to draw first blood, when one section of Hurricanes bounced three Zeros and shot down two of them, and no serviceable fighters were caught on the ground. Something of the sort might have happened at Colombo, but 5 April 1942 was one of those days when, on the early-warning front, nothing went right. "
https://ufdcimages.uflib.ufl.edu/AA/00/06/81/82/00012/Fall-2014.pdf
Sorry but some of those are based upon prototypes or Grumman provided Specs rather than actual aircraft kitted out in 1942 armament, armour and SS tanks. The UK tests of the Martlet II and IV were well documented and were combat ready examples. The Martlets (F4F-3/4/A/B) also had single stage engines with FTHs of 14-15K ft versus the two stage engines in the F4F-3/4 with FTHs of ~20K ft, but then most naval air combat occurred at lower altitudes.
Let me clarify since you seem confused here. By "Retired" I mean that the A5M4 was moved to tertiary districts and / or training duties. The single minor engagement you mentioned in February 1942 is I believe the only significant combat A5M4 had with the US Navy. Only two were operational at Coral Sea. The standard fighter for the IJN was the A6M, as we all know quite well. There were also some A6M2-N floatplane fighters. And of course the Army had the Ki-43.
I say again, the A5M4 was not a significant part of the Japanese forces engaged with the USN in the Pacific in 1942.
I thought we were looking at IJNAS Zeros vs. RAF Hurricanes? I think in the right hands the Hurricane would be about as able as the P-40. The Zero fought Hurricanes in Burma? What the heck were was the IJNAS doing in Burma?
As an aside, you have to feel badly for the Hurricanes in Malaya. Early January 1942 the first batch arrive, the maintenance guys work around the clock to assemble the aircraft, and then the still mostly (except for the last three sleepless weeks) inexperienced Buffalo pilots transition over to Hurricanes. They didn't have a chance to acclimatize to their aircraft before they were all dead. The Dutch took over some of these Hurricanes and suffered the same fate.
Imagine instead if in the spring of 1941 two hundred Hurricanes with BoB-experienced pilots arrive. That would make for a fair comparison with the Zero.
You don't actually know that. There is no reason to assume that one specific test you mention is more accurate than the 5 other tests I posted. The consensus was that the Wildcat could fly well over 300 mph and was in fact faster than the A6M at higher altitude. Exact performance would depend on fuel load, equipment and atmospheric conditions etc. as I mentioned already, but you are just cherry picking the (outlier) data that suits your preconceptions or patriotic ideals.
Again, if the A5M4 wasn't there what would have replaced it? The USN also engaged A5M4s during their carrier raidsm but regardless the A5M4 was present in the Pacific and an important part of IJNAF air defences.
What do you think?
There were two Japanese units mentioned as being in the Marshall Islands in February 1942 on that page in First Team you were quoting from: the Chitose Air Group , which (briefly) had the A5M4, and the Yokohama Air Group which had bombers and seaplanes.
The biography of Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, who was in the Chitose Air Group, mentions that he arrived in New Britain on 3 February in 1942. It states that his unit received their first A6M2s that same week. He was assigned his A6M2 number F-108 on February 10.
Does that answer your question?
Interestingly by the way, the Yokohama Air Group also received 12 x A6M2-N, Zero seaplane-fighters in April, with which they managed to shoot down a B-17 and a B-24 in May and July of that year.
Right now tell me that the RAI wasn't replacing their older aircraft as well. We know that the A5M-4 was present at Rabaul and at Coral Sea.
I can tell you that by August 1942, more than half of the supposedly incredible Axis force of 600 aircraft arrayed at various points around the Med to intercept Pedestal were obsolete 1930's vintage types like the Cr 42, G.50, Ro.37, SM 79, Z.506, Z1007, Z501, BR20, S.66 (!!), He 111
There were 57 modern fighters (39 x Bf 109 and 27 x MC 202) and 182 modern bombers (Ju 88 and I'm being generous to include Ju 87).
During the air battles in the Pacific much earlier in May and June of 1942 as best I can determine the Japanese had 2 obsolete type A5M2 fighters which you brought up in a futile comparison, all of the rest of their strike aircraft were at least as modern and just as capable as the best of the Axis air armada at Pedestal.
So in that sense they were doing better than the Americans who still had Buffaloes and Vought Vindicators at Midway and Devastators on their carriers.
How are the SM79, Z.506, Z1007, BR20 and HE111 which were typically armoured and some had SS tanks less effective than a Nell or Betty ? The Z501 and S.66 were still useful for ASR. The CR42 and G.50 were still useful aircraft and better armed and generally better performing than the A5M-4.
The IJN could put the A6M into front line roles because they could use the A5M in secondary roles. The fact is that Kate and Val were passed their due dates as well.
Be real. The Japanese produced 10,000 A6M, they only made 1,000 A5M (starting in 1935) - and most of those were not actually needed any more by 1942.