Confusing (to me) B-25 tail number

[norwest]

I have a photo that clearly shows a B-25 tail number. My hope was to find the aircraft's history and perhaps be able to determine the location in the photo. I found the matching number in the serial number database, but it appears more than once, and is sometimes listed as belonging to another type of aircraft. To make matters worse, I am not familiar with the abbreviations and acronyms (such as XB-GET, BuNo, MSN, CV#, etc.). Can someone shed a little light for me?

Regards,
Kevin

 

[norwest]

I should have added the instances of the tail number (33978) that I found in the databases....

 

[Sabrejet]

The aircraft depicted is North American B-25J-1-NC Mitchell serial number 43-3978. The tail number '33978' is just a representation of its serial number, with the '4' of its Fiscal Year (in this case 1943) dropped. That is common practice, but you can usually work out of the '3' refers to 1933, 1943 or 1953 etc by the type of aircraft you're looking at.

You may find other aircraft with serial number '33978' (for example 53-3978), but there is only one 43-3978. MSN is manufacturer's serial (or sequence) number while 43-3978 is the USAAC serial number. MSN is also unique and stays with the aircraft. If 'your' B-25 passed to the Navy, it would receive a different 'serial number' (actually a Bureau of Aeronautics Number (BuAerNo or sometimes BuNo)) and so even if the BuAerNo is different from the USAAC s/n, the MSN will be the comon factor which links the USAAC and USN numbers to the same entity. MSN is often shown as c/n (construction number) by the way.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[norwest]

Very helpful, Sabrejet! Thank you very much for your reply.

 

[fubar57]

Couldn't find it on Baugher's site

 

[GreenKnight121]

He doesn't list every number (not all aircraft had details of their service history preserved), but look for the block that would include it.
33978 falls in the following block:

43-3870/4104 North American B-25J-1-NC Mitchell MSN 108-24196/108-24430

1943 Serial Numbers 43-001 to 43-5108 Last revised July 15, 2023

USASC-USAAS-USAAC-USAAF-USAF Military Aircraft Serial Numbers--1908 to Present

 

[fubar57]

I know. I've provided him with missing serial numbers

 

[mjfur]

Send a request for the history of B25J 43-3978 here, Archives Research Request
You will usually get a response in a week or two.

 

[pb43]

I have a photo that clearly shows a B-25 tail number. My hope was to find the aircraft's history and perhaps be able to determine the location in the photo. I found the matching number in the serial number database, but it appears more than once, and is sometimes listed as belonging to another type of aircraft. To make matters worse, I am not familiar with the abbreviations and acronyms (such as XB-GET, BuNo, MSN, CV#, etc.). Can someone shed a little light for me?

Regards,
Kevin

43-3978 North American B-25J-1-NC Mitchell
MSN 108-24304
The US military have a habit of only using the last digit of the fiscal year and adding it without the hyphen thus 43-nnnnn becomes 3nnnnn.

This is 43-3978 so msn is 108-24304 (msn manufacturers serial number) North American serial numbers start with the Model/ Drawing Number, i.e 108, so this batch of Mitchells were NA.108 s.

XB-GET would be a civil registration in Mexico

BuNo is the Bureau of Aeronautics number applied to all aircraft bought by the Navy

CV# - no idea give an example

 

[pb43]

I have a photo that clearly shows a B-25 tail number. My hope was to find the aircraft's history and perhaps be able to determine the location in the photo. I found the matching number in the serial number database, but it appears more than once, and is sometimes listed as belonging to another type of aircraft. To make matters worse, I am not familiar with the abbreviations and acronyms (such as XB-GET, BuNo, MSN, CV#, etc.). Can someone shed a little light for me?

Regards,
Kevin

North American B-25J-1-NC Mitchell 43-3978 (msn 108-24300)

 

[GrauGeist]

The abbreviation "CV" would stand for "Aircraft Carrier" and was generally applied to Fleet Carriers.

By looking at the mix of abbreviations discussed above, it appears that searching through B-25 serial numbers have resulted in coming across the Navy version of the B-25 (PBJ).

So a good example of USAAF and USN numbers applied to one airframe, would be the USAAF B-25H-5-NA (s/n 43-4700) which was transferred to the USN as PBJ-1H (BuNo 35277) and modified for carrier trials about the USS Shangri-La (CV-38) on 15 November 1944.

By the way, PBJ stands for "Patrol Bomber, North American" - North American Aviation was given the letter "J" because the letter "N" was assigned to the Naval Aircraft Factory.

 

[Sabrejet]

Unfortunately the history for this aircraft isn't too clear: it went to the Pacific Theater and remained there with the AF until scrapped by FEAF. I don't have any squadron/unit detail but its known history is thus:

B-25J-1 s/n 43-3978 built at NAA, Kansas City for Project 96525-R
Accepted 10Feb44
Available 12Feb44
Delivered 11Feb44
To modification 12Feb44
Departed for Hunter Field 27Mar44
Nashville 27Mar44
Hunter AAF 28Mar44
McClellan AAF 15Apr44
Fairfield AAF 23Apr44
Departed USA 02May44 for 7th Air Force
Condemned salvage 23Nov46
Reclamation complete FEAF 13Jul49