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Why do you classify PoW's radar suite as "sketchy"? It was state of the art for the period.Of the Royal Navy's fast BB/BCs, HMS Repulse had the worst AA of them all. Meanwhile HMS Prince of Wales had at best a sketchy AA radar suite and relied mainly on the mediocre 5.25" DP twins. Assuming some months for procurement and shipyard planning, what's the best reasonable AA and fire control we can give the two ships by October 1941? Putting aside feasibility, can it make a difference?
Unfortunately we're too early for the RN introduction of the 40mm Bofors, and years before the RN had proximity fuses. But we can give both ships advanced radar and AA fire control, add more 2pdr multiple pom-poms and Oerlikon 20 mm cannons, and swap out Repulse's low angle 4" for QF 4.5-inch like on HMS Renown.
We need to last until the RAF's Buffaloes arrive.According to Japanese records (IIRC) Force Z shot down 4 (with a 5th crashing on landing?) and damaged over 20 of the attacking aircraft. Most of them by PoW. Considering that Force Z did not have proximity fuzes that is somewhat impressive.
If Renown (with her ~equivalent to PoW's AA suite) had been in Force Z instead of Repulse, presumably there would have been an increase in the attacking aircraft shot down and damaged proportionate to what was achieved by PoW.
But even if we assume the AA was twice as effective, it ends up depending on which aircraft get shot down - the ones that scored the hits, the ones that missed, the torpedo bombers, the level bombers, or a combination thereof. If they shot down the torpedo bombers that scored the first hits then the AA on PoW would have continued to do pretty serious damage on any attacking aircraft, and PoW would (probably) have survived at least long enough to be attacked again - maybe long enough to escape.
Approximately the same scenario would apply to the Renown (with her ~equivalent to PoW's AA suite) if she had been in Force Z instead of Repulse.
Their AA fire control was as good as that in PoW. They had 2xHACS Mk.IV one forward & one aft. 2xquad pom-pom with directors plus smaller weapons varying by ship in 1941. Radars Type 279 or 281 for air warning, Type 284 on the main director for surface gunnery and 282 and 285 for the various AA directors just as in PoW. Type 272 was being added in a lantern on the foremast.How good were the Dido class AA-cruisers? I know they have the mediocre 5.25", but would adding two early five-turret Didos have helped? Did they have radar or advanced fire control to lay all ten guns onto one target? They certainly look impressive with up to ten barrels pointing skyward. Each 5.25" fired up to 7-8 rounds per min, so that's up to 80 rpm, until the lads tire.
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Whatever was the best available and readily installable by October 41.Beezy, you should define "advanced radar and AA fire control", so we know how much time-travel is involved.
Whatever was the best available and readily installable by October 41.
I agree, and I hate to play the contrarian. But Hermes' T-shape 36 by 36.6 feet (11.0 by 11.2 m) lifts are too narrow for Sea Hurricanes and too short for Fulmars. The lack of crash barrier and outriggers precludes permanent deck parking. Buffaloes would fit, but the FAA rejected the type. Folding Martlets would be ideal, but they won't be available until 1942. The fighter-bomber Skuas were withdrawn from service by summer 1941 - too bad as I'd like to see a single type CAG of twelve to sixteen Skuas to really hit those landing ships while offering some degree of fleet air defence - even though a loaded Betty or Nell would be difficult to catch. So, it's Sea Gladiators.The best available anti aircraft solution would be Sea Hurricanes (initial operation off HMS Furious in July, '41) operating off HMS Hermes (could have been in theatre); close 2nd would be Fairey Fulmars - you can pack more onto Hermes thanks to folding wings.
Could you do the math for both the SHurr and the Fulmar? How many fighters could you maintain over both Force Z and Hermes at the same time?The best available anti aircraft solution would be Sea Hurricanes (initial operation off HMS Furious in July, '41) operating off HMS Hermes (could have been in theatre); close 2nd would be Fairey Fulmars - you can pack more onto Hermes thanks to folding wings.
While Hermes is probably too slow to operate in concert with PoW and Repulse, she could provide CAP for both herself and the capital ships even if they were a hundred miles distant.* Fulmar's probably have the speed advantage at sea level to be able to intercept Mitsubishi Nells and Bettys during their bombing runs.
The Bettys and Nells were unescorted. If this remains so, they should be chewed apart by either.... if another carrier, one that is Sea Hurricane compatible is available. That would have to be HMS Indomitable, Furious, Eagle or little Argus. Everything else has too narrow lifts for the Sea Hurricanes. Everything except Hermes can operate the Fulmar.Could you do the math for both the SHurr and the Fulmar? How many fighters could you maintain over both Force Z and Hermes at the same time?
The 4in was sort of an in-between weapon. Turns out it was one of the better heavy (over 40mm) weapons the British had. The 4in could fire about twice as fast as the 5.25 and it trained and elevated faster. It actually did fairly well at Crete. A number of the British losses were after the ammo was depleted.HMS Carlisle is still pre-war thinking - that the danger is the high altitude bomber/no one would be crazy enough to flying to the long range barrage able to be put up by HAA. 2pdr was just a "mop up" weapon. As we see during the war, RN was replacing even HAA with additional 2 pdrs - the high altitude bomber not being threat it was thought to be and enemy was more than willing to risk the barrage fire. (But you knew that)
The plans to convert the old WW1 vintage C & D class cruisers to AA ships emerged following the Abyssinian Crisis in 1935 when it was realised that there was a need for upgunning the AA firepower of the Fleet.There were a few of these floating around
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four twin 4in but only on Quad pom-pom?
Most British modern (after E class) Cruisers had a better AA set up than the Repulse had.
Might not have had enough magazine space.
Air cover for Force Z was easy.
Use the bloody RADIO!!!
Keeping the location of Force Z secret by using radio silence so your own land based planes don't know where you are wasn't the smartest trick ever pulled.