Best of the pre-war rest: Czechoslovakians, Poles, Romanians or Yugoslavs?

[Admiral Beez]

These four Central/Eastern European fighters first fly in 1938/39: Avia B-135, PZL.50 Jastrząb, IAR 80, Rogožarski IK-3. Which is the best?

Avia B-135 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

PZL.50 Jastrząb - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

IAR 80 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rogožarski IK-3 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As an aside, is the second aircraft below a dual seat IK-3?

If we want to include the Hungarians, there's the MÁVAG Héja that first flies in 1940.

 

[Zmauky]

By the oil cooler, and the horizontal tail, and the fabric outer part of the fuselage, definitely a Yak, I would say a local conversion of the Yak-9.
Admittedly, the rest of the planes in the picture also look like Yaks, but they are first version of the post-war S-49A. The plane that is about to take off is also a two-seater Yak-9

 

[Wurger]

Actually not Rogožarski IK-3 but these are the Ikarus S-49A as stated above , the mix of the American, Russian and Spanish parts. And indeed, the two-seater is the UJak-9. During 1953, the "Soko" factory from Mostar undertook the task of converting a certain number of Jak-9 single-seat fighter planes into a two-seat UJak-9 variant intended for flight training. I would say the training kite is quite similar to the Yak9V. Just the radio mast is attached at the different location.

the pic source: the net.

 

[mack8]

Probably a biased oppinion, but imo IAR-80 is the best of the small power fighters. Simply because it was produced in significant quantity 1940-44 (450), fought the war 1941-45, and got hundreds of kills against soviets, americans, and germans, which is far more than the other 3 types ever achieved (not by their own fault of course, since their producing countries were defeated/occupied early on).

It got decent performance for 1941 at least versus main opposition, decent flight qualities, decent armament.

The IK-3 and B-135 have a bit more speed in, true. But as a what-if, one can imagine the IAR-80 performance with a Jumo-211 or better, DB-601/605. If the germans gave us such engines then the IAR-80 could have still remained decently competitive until 1944 at least and stand a chance even against a P-51 let alone P-38 (which the IAR-80 massacred anyway in the memorable 10.06.44 air battle), or late model soviet Yaks, Las, P-39s etc.

 

[Zmauky]

+ for IAR-80/81.
The Romanians did made a test model with a Jumo 211 engine (because they had them for the SM-79). Away from the literature, from memory I think they had issues with fuselage/tail vibration and the general conclusion was that the airframe was a little too small for the weight/power of the Jumo (it was a follow up of the PZL 7/11 fighters series from early 30' after all).

 

[mack8]

+ for IAR-80/81.
The Romanians did made a test model with a Jumo 211 engine (because they had them for the SM-79). Away from the literature, from memory I think they had issues with fuselage/tail vibration and the general conclusion was that the airframe was a little too small for the weight/power of the Jumo (it was a follow up of the PZL 7/11 fighters series from early 30' after all).

Recent literature actually says that both the DB-601 and 605 were tried on the IAR-80. First in 1941 IAR-80 no.13 had a DB-601 from a Bf-109E, indeed it vibrated badly. Second time in 1943 IAR-81C no.326 had a DB-605A fitted, this time it flew quite well (probably because the 81C airframe was stronger since it was planned as a dive-bomber), but the germans didn't give us any engines for production/conversion. I probably said it elsewhere, but i'd sell my soul to the devil to see pictures of this DB-605 powered IAR-80 (or indeed better ones of the DB-601/Jumo-211 airframe), must have been quite a sight.

There is a bit of unclarity re. Jumo-211 since recent literature does not mention such trials, BUT some speculate it might have been trialled as well, maybe in 1942. At any rate, apparently the IAR-80 was designed to have a Jumo-211 from early on, as far back as 1937 (same goes for the SM-79B order, which eventually evolved into the JRS-79B)! Estimated speed with a Jumo-211Da was 30 kph highter than the basic radial version, and at a higher altitude. But again, the germans did't give us the necessary engines, so the planned Jumo-211 powered IAR-80 production (from no. 21 onwards) never happened.

To top this all up, there is mention of an airframe with a 1600HP Gnome Rhone engine, which logically it can only be the Gnome Rhone-14R. But this never got to fly since it was destroyed in the USAAF factory bombing in i believe May 1944.

So yeah, this is the list of alternate IAR-80 variants (and i guess the wet dreams of any 80 afficionados), with DB-601, 605, Jumo-211 and GR-14R. Any of these engines would have given the IAR-80 a new life.

 

[Airborne2001]

Recent literature actually says that both the DB-601 and 605 were tried on the IAR-80. First in 1941 IAR-80 no.13 had a DB-601 from a Bf-109E, indeed it vibrated badly. Second time in 1943 IAR-81C no.326 had a DB-605A fitted, this time it flew quite well (probably because the 81C airframe was stronger since it was planned as a dive-bomber), but the germans didn't give us any engines for production/conversion. I probably said it elsewhere, but i'd sell my soul to the devil to see pictures of this DB-605 powered IAR-80 (or indeed better ones of the DB-601/Jumo-211 airframe), must have been quite a sight.

There is a bit of unclarity re. Jumo-211 since recent literature does not mention such trials, BUT some speculate it might have been trialled as well, maybe in 1942. At any rate, apparently the IAR-80 was designed to have a Jumo-211 from early on, as far back as 1937 (same goes for the SM-79B order, which eventually evolved into the JRS-79B)! Estimated speed with a Jumo-211Da was 30 kph highter than the basic radial version, and at a higher altitude. But again, the germans did't give us the necessary engines, so the planned Jumo-211 powered IAR-80 production (from no. 21 onwards) never happened.

To top this all up, there is mention of an airframe with a 1600HP Gnome Rhone engine, which logically it can only be the Gnome Rhone-14R. But this never got to fly since it was destroyed in the USAAF factory bombing in i believe May 1944.

So yeah, this is the list of alternate IAR-80 variants (and i guess the wet drems of any 80 afficionados), with DB-601, 605, Jumo-211 and GR-14R. Any of these engines would have given the IAR-80 a new life.

IIRC, there were plans for a BMW 801 conversion as well but Germany wasn't able to spare anything due to Barbarossa.

 

[mack8]

I'm not sure if the BMW-801 was really considered (it's longer and much heavier than the IAR K-14), it might be the case of old information based on the mention of a 1600 HP engine being mounted on an airframe (the aforementioned Gnome Rhone-14R in 1944) with someone assuming it was the BMW-801. Pretty much same as the older info on Jumo-211 testing whereas actually it was the DB-601.

But it's possible of course.