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I haven't posted any comments on this issue until now.
I don't think that a Russian surrender was ever likely, but a temporary ceasefire may have been possible. All this talk about a Russian surrender is a gross westernized misunderstanding of how the Russians think. The deeper you penetrated Russia, the more intractable their psyche becomes, the Russians would never have surrendered, although they would have sort a temporary ceasefire. Moreover the ground east of Gorki rapidly descends into dense swampy forests, almost totally devoid of roads, and completely unsuited to a war of maneuver.
Admittedly the capture of Leningrad, Moscow, the Caucasus and Stalingrad would deal a heavy blow, but instead of fighting with an average of 600 Divisions, they would fight with 300. The eastern front would scale down in importance, but would never quieten down. Moreover, in 1941, the British had promised to intervene on the ground with British troops on the eastern front. The Americans would also have committed to a united effort on the eastern front, with surplus Lend lease (now that the Russians were only half as strong as they were historically, being poured into India, to raise an additional 70 or so Divisions from the subcontinent. This had been envisaged, but never implemented because of equipment shortages, and because these troops were never needed. The most obvious place where these troops would be used would be on the southern front in the Caucasus. Along with the fully implemented Marshal Mobilization plan, which envisaged a full 200 divs taking to the field by 1943 (albeit not completely trained), and assuming that a quid pro quo somewhere exists, that probably would see less shipping in the pacific (and no counteroffensive) so that more can be poured into the ETO, I think a wavering Russia spells big trouble for Germany.
As for this notion that oil would be enhanced, and that Luftwaffe training could be moved east, thats a complete pipe dream. With the front line moved approximately 1000 kms further east than it reached historically, the German logistics system would have been in total melt down. They lacked the rolling stock to keep the armies in their historical positions, what lesser chance would they have if the front was even further from home. As for the economic resources of the occupied territories, well this too was never able to be exploited, again because of the breakdown in the German supply systems. The only hope for Germany was to secure a negotiated settlement with the Russians. The distances and the terrain, along with the Russian attitudes would ensure that outright surrender was never going to happen.....
I haven't posted any comments on this issue until now.
I don't think that a Russian surrender was ever likely, but a temporary ceasefire may have been possible. All this talk about a Russian surrender is a gross westernized misunderstanding of how the Russians think. The deeper you penetrated Russia, the more intractable their psyche becomes, the Russians would never have surrendered, although they would have sort a temporary ceasefire. Moreover the ground east of Gorki rapidly descends into dense swampy forests, almost totally devoid of roads, and completely unsuited to a war of maneuver.
Admittedly the capture of Leningrad, Moscow, the Caucasus and Stalingrad would deal a heavy blow, but instead of fighting with an average of 600 Divisions, they would fight with 300. The eastern front would scale down in importance, but would never quieten down.
Moreover, in 1941, the British had promised to intervene on the ground with British troops on the eastern front. The Americans would also have committed to a united effort on the eastern front, with surplus Lend lease (now that the Russians were only half as strong as they were historically, being poured into India, to raise an additional 70 or so Divisions from the subcontinent. This had been envisaged, but never implemented because of equipment shortages, and because these troops were never needed. The most obvious place where these troops would be used would be on the southern front in the Caucasus.
The only hope for Germany was to secure a negotiated settlement with the Russians. The distances and the terrain, along with the Russian attitudes would ensure that outright surrender was never going to happen.....
I firmly believe that Merchant shipping was the glue that held the allied efforts together, without it, nothing is possible, with it, many alternatives to the way the allies project their power is entirely plausible.
All this depends on the allied shipping reserves being held intact. without it, they can do none of this.
Well then it is a no brainer.....what you are saying is that if the Germans manage to defeat the allies and the Russians, can they win????.....well...yes
The P-47 was a very good match for the 109 or even FW 190. It could absorb a lot of rounds and shells and still keep going. It's climb wasn't as good as the 109 but it had an excellent dive. It had a powerful engine, and could sustain fast manuevers except maybe at low altitudes.
As far as I know, the P-47's were never slaughtered by the enemy the way a P-40 or P-39 might have been.
why was the P-38 replaced by the jug and the Stang, you have to ask yourself that question ........... range ? you are also standing up against earlier variants of the 109 and Fw were not really top notch in the fighter role until 44, so it appears as an even keel to me.
Granted without the contention of the Soviets to the east there will be several more Geschwaders training up in Reich defense so at least this will give the LW the numbers increase but still not an overwhelming air superiority
The German FW Me109 could out-turn all of the Allied fighters in '43 correct?
The US fighters were heavier, more firepower could take more punishment?
Was this the P-47 "D"?
In July 1943 only the P-47C and no operational paddle blades until the kits arrived in January 1944.
The German FW Me109 could out-turn all of the Allied fighters in '43 correct?
Despite the vigorous debate, IMO no. The Spit V and Yak 9 could out turn both for eqivalent fuel loads, the Hurricane and P-40 were 'competitive' but inferior.
The US fighters were heavier, more firepower could take more punishment?
Also, with some of the aces form the eastern front fighting over the channel, France etc. with the Luftwaffe pilots having TWO years of war experience over the US pilots, shouldn't that also count for something?
This would give them a better chance to school new fighter pilots, right?
With more well trained pilots up in the air, this must be a pain in the neck...
Me 109 yes, Fw 190 with 4 2cm cannon - no as far as firepower. US aircraft heavier than everybody else's primarily because of fuel and engine selection for the Big 3 USAAF and F6F and F4U.
WWIIAircraftPerformance said:The records show that the P-38 did not do well as a long range, high altitude bomber escort with the Eighth Air Force. The major problem would appear to be the unusually large number of engine failures that occurred. There was also the restriction requiring a low dive speed above 20,000 feet, which was the standard altitude for escort fighters. The engine problems were under control by mid 1944 and the other problems were eventually eliminated or improved.
If the Lightning did not do that well with the Eighth Air Force (for whatever reason) it more than made up for it in the Pacific...
Unfortunately the Lightning's unusual shape induced a high-speed airflow over the wing root resulting in a low critical Mach number, and caused it to enter compressibility induced control problems at a relatively low speed. This turned out to be a major problem for any dive started above 25,000 feet. In Europe, German pilots used this to their advantage against P-38s engaged in the high-altitude bomber escort role.
High carburetor air temperature (CAT for short) can cause all kinds of engine problems including detonation, which can lead to catastrophic engine failure. Allison recommended a CAT of no more than 45 degrees C. As it turned out high CAT was one of the major problems limiting P-38 performance through the P-38H. The root cause was, of course, the limited cooling ability of the wing leading edge intercoolers found in all early P-38s.
Once the P-51D came along, there would be less casualties to the bombers, even if the Germans had scores of 262 jets at their disposal. Eventually the Allies would have put their own jets to use, like the British Gloster Meteor, not a bad aircraft, and without the engine problems of the 262.
It might have lasted until 1946 or maybe even longer, but remember that D-Day was coming soon so the Germans would have still have had advancing Allied armies coming to Germany .