Counting the Cost

[bomber]

"The overseas pilots were moved by a simple sense of duty that must have seemed slighly anachronistic even in 1939. Asked later what he had been fighting for, Al Deere replied "In my generation, as schoolboys, we always thought of {Britain} as the home country, always refered to it as the Mother Country. That was the old cononial tie...... There was no question that if this country was threathened, New Zealanders wouldn't go to war for Britain. It was the same for Adolph 'Sailor' Malan, a South African ex-merchant navy officer...."

I'd suggest you don't put your opinions into the mouths of these men... revisionist history is so insulting.


Simon

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Well, this argument proves why Britain lost her colonies.

 

[pbfoot]

Yeah I hate revisionist history as well but Canada has for the most part shunned Brit leadership since WW1 and Al Deere does not speak for the majority . have you ever asked any or even talked to a commonealth vet . better yet in Yorkshire where 16 RCAF bomber squadrons were based show me any acknowledgement of there effort let alone evidence of their contribution.
I am sorry to have changed the course of this thread that is a beautiful monument to American losses in the ETO

 

[amrit]

Another memorial that is very close to where I grew up - the Polish War Memorial (with 1,243 names on it). I used to visit it regularly with my Polish friends:

polish war memorial

And 482 Czechs lost their lives whilst in the RAF, alongside the aforementioned Poles, 17163 Canadians*, 10835 Australians*, 3735 New zealanders*, 2577 South Africans* and 654 Indians* (* according to the CWGC for 1939-1945).

I'm still working on French casualties in the RAF.

 

[pbfoot]

Another memorial that is very close to where I grew up - the Polish War Memorial (with 1,243 names on it). I used to visit it regularly with my Polish friends:

polish war memorial

And 482 Czechs lost their lives whilst in the RAF, alongside the aforementioned Poles, 17163 Canadians*, 10835 Australians*, 3735 New zealanders*, 2577 South Africans* and 654 Indians* (* according to the CWGC for 1939-1945).

I'm still working on French casualties in the RAF.

I'm sorry but most of those 17000 died in RCAF service not in the RAF

 

[amrit]

I'm sorry but most of those 17000 died in RCAF service not in the RAF

Sorry pbfoot, you're quite right. I was so busy typing in the numbers that I got the semantics wrong.

What I meant to say was:

"And 482 Czechs lost their lives whilst in the RAF, alongside the aforementioned Poles. 17163 Canadians*, 10835 Australians*, 3735 New Zealanders*, 2577 South Africans* and 654 Indians* in the air forces died (* according to the CWGC for 1939-1945)".

The reason I haven't distinguished between say, Canadians in the RAF and those in the RCAF, is because that that distinction isn't made on the CWGC site.

And to think that I was trying to highlight the sacrifices of all the countries on the Allied side

 

[bomber]

I didn't realize you Brits lost more than we did.

(Humbled)

So here's a question for you...

In a single day who lost the most planes and men Bomber Command performing nightime ops or USAF doing daylight ops ?

Simon

 

[amrit]

So here's a question for you...

In a single day who lost the most planes and men Bomber Command performing nightime ops or USAF doing daylight ops ?

Simon

Do you mean single day or single target/mission?

I believe the heaviest for Bomber command in single raid was 96 bombers (600 aircrew) out of 795, shot down during a raid on Nuremberg. (30/03/1944).

And I believe worst for the 8th Air Force was 60 aircraft lost attacking Schweinfurt (14/10/1943)

 

[bomber]

Yeah I hate revisionist history as well but Canada has for the most part shunned Brit leadership since WW1 and Al Deere does not speak for the majority .

No he doesn't but what more right have you got to speak for the whole over someone who was actually there ?

have you ever asked any or even talked to a commonealth vet ?
.

No... they're not that easy to find in Nottinghamshire

. better yet in Yorkshire where 16 RCAF bomber squadrons were based show me any acknowledgement of their effort let alone evidence of their contribution.

Yes you're right and it's remiss that the Yorkshire people haven't errected a monument to them for helping keep the Nazi hoard from their daughters... while they're at it they could errect one for the Gays and Lesbians, the muslims and those people that are lefthand, (because they're allways missed off) and to top is all how about Ginger haired people ?

Your attack on the British people and their respect for the sacrifices made by people in fighting the Nazi's is unwarranted...

The respect is shown to all nationalites within the RAF... What about the Scots and Welsh or the Irish... and lets not forget those from Cornwall.

You make out it was a British vs German war... it wasn't so. Britain declared war after Poland was invaded and we fought, just as all the other nationalities did to oppose oppression.. The fact that Britian was the last country standing and so required that the battle be launch from here doesn't make it a Britain vs Germany war. and as such your attack on the British people and your perceived lack of respect shown to your conntrymen is unwarranted...

Why not cast your angst on the Dutch, or the French, Polish, Belgium or any of the other countries...

It's just an excuse to have an unjustified pop at Britian..

I am sorry to have changed the course of this thread that is a beautiful monument to American losses in the ETO

Yes it is a beautifull monument....

Maybe Canadians and whoever should errect a perminent monument soley for their countrymens sacrifrices in the UK somewhere ?

Simon

 

[amrit]

better yet in Yorkshire where 16 RCAF bomber squadrons were based show me any acknowledgement of there effort let alone evidence of their contribution.

Roll of Honour- Yorkshire - Wombleton - RCAF Memorial

Roll of Honour - Yorkshire - Skipton on Swale - Royal Canadian Air ForceMemorial

and wider afield:

Roll of Honour - Huntingodnshire - Great Gransden Canadian Airforce

And there are many memorials on that web-site that acknowledge the sacrifices of members of the RCAF.

 

[bomber]

And I believe worst for the 8th Air Force was 60 aircraft lost attacking Schweinfurt (14/10/1943)

Think this was 68

 

[amrit]

Think this was 68

Wasn't sure whether to include the ones deemed Cat E (which was 7).

From:

8th Air Force Combat Losses in World War II ETO Against the AXIS Powers

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

There's plenty of people who wouldnt exactly want a memorial to honor nazi's.

I think that normal soldiers and pilots deserve a monument for them. They were just doing there duty as well. Infact there are several monuments for them in my town and one lists the names of the fallen as well. I think they deserve it...

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

In a single day who lost the most planes and men Bomber Command performing nightime ops or USAF doing daylight ops ?


Bomber Harris lost more men.

But I thought the American Airmen losses, including the Pacific, outweighed the British.

Wrong I guess. We just came along at the end to mop up everything after the spill was over.

 

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Supid double post.

And the moral of that is:

 

[pbfoot]

I believe your missing the point when the guys landed after a mission the BBC always said RAF when the show might have been RCAF or so I've overheard in conversations . They laugh about the old RAF types thinking we colonials and not up to snuff with RAF because our enlisted men had the audacity to talk to the commisioned ones without bowing and scraping . In Tholthorpe not a plaque nothing in fact the place is enshrined by the last remaining building is a now pig pen. . 814 RCAF bombers were lost and we get clumped with the RAF . I'm not up to snuff on how many ginger haired gays you had flying combat missions but I'll defer to your expertise.

 

[amrit]

In Tholthorpe not a plaque nothing in fact the place is enshrined by the last remaining building is a now pig pen.

420, 425, 431, 434 Squadron Memorial -- Tholthorpe

Middleton St. George Memorial

 

[pbfoot]

My apology it must be recent as when i visited in the 80's it wasn't there

 

[plan_D]

We've built many monuments for the foreign nations that fought in the British forces; and for Great Britain. I cannot believe anyone is even having a go.

How many monuments does the U.S, Canada, Australia or New Zealand have for British servicemen that died during the war?

 

[pbfoot]

We've built many monuments for the foreign nations that fought in the British forces; and for Great Britain. I cannot believe anyone is even having a go.

How many monuments does the U.S, Canada, Australia or New Zealand have for British servicemen that died during the war?

When they die on our soil we do