I have nothing against this thread, but I do see it going the way of the political threads pretty soon...
Damn Shame This .... Time to Get Out ..?
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- #42
michaelmaltby
Colonel
The Muslims are not happy:
They're not happy in Gaza .
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya .
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran .
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen .
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan .
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon .
So, where are they happy?
They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in England ..
They're happy in France .
They're happy in Italy .
They're happy in Germany .
They're happy in Sweden .
They're happy in the USA .
They're happy in Norway .
They're happy in every country that is not Muslim.
And who do they blame?
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.
They blame the countries they are happy in.
And they want to change them to be like the countries they came from, where they were unhappy;
Excuse me!
[h/t Mayor of Mitchieville]
They're not happy in Gaza .
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya .
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran .
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen .
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan .
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon .
So, where are they happy?
They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in England ..
They're happy in France .
They're happy in Italy .
They're happy in Germany .
They're happy in Sweden .
They're happy in the USA .
They're happy in Norway .
They're happy in every country that is not Muslim.
And who do they blame?
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.
They blame the countries they are happy in.
And they want to change them to be like the countries they came from, where they were unhappy;
Excuse me!
[h/t Mayor of Mitchieville]
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Oh boy...
mikewint
Captain
MichaelM, Yes indeed we did travel this road before and I am proud and thankful to say that Canada is one of our BEST friends and many many thanks for the almost 3,000 bbls you import to us per day. Also to Venezuela for its over 1,000 bbls/day and Mexico for its over 1200 bbls/day. We could not survive without it but the REALLY good stuff still comes from the Mid-East (over 2,200 bbls/day), it requires the least amount of refining, thus having the lowest environmental impact over all. The US has shales in the west that can provide crude oil at 50-100 tons of rock per bbl. Can be done, but at what cost?
I digress, back to the topic: If the fundamentalist Islamic sects take over and cut-off the great Satan we, the USA, are in trouble. So, yes, like it or not we have to find a way to deal with these fundamentalist types that does not turn them into martyrs to Islam. The Romans had a totally free hand with the Christians and look where it got them.
I digress, back to the topic: If the fundamentalist Islamic sects take over and cut-off the great Satan we, the USA, are in trouble. So, yes, like it or not we have to find a way to deal with these fundamentalist types that does not turn them into martyrs to Islam. The Romans had a totally free hand with the Christians and look where it got them.
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- #45
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"... The Romans had a totally free hand with the Christians and look where it got them."
The Papacy - in Rome.
In other news, I think your numbers may be a trad 'dated'.
September 2011 Import Highlights: Released November 29, 2011
Monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in September 2011 has been released and it shows that three countries exported more than 1,000 thousand barrels per day to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 69 percent of United States crude oil imports in September while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 88 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top five sources of US crude oil imports for September were Canada (2,324 thousand barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1,465 thousand barrels per day), Mexico (1,099 thousand barrels per day), Venezuela (759 thousand barrels per day) and Nigeria (529 thousand barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Colombia (510 thousand barrels per day), Iraq (403 thousand barrels per day), Ecuador (299 thousand barrels per day), Angola (283 thousand barrels per day) and Russia (275 thousand barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 9,006 thousand barrels per day in September, which is a decrease of (16) thousand barrels per day from August 2011.
Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in September, exporting 2,829 thousand barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2,637 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Saudi Arabia with 1,479 thousand barrels per day.
Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Sep-11 Aug-11 YTD 2011 Sep-10 YTD 2010
CANADA 2,324 2,240 2,157 1,937 1,971
SAUDI 1,465 1,075 1,180 1,082 1,072
MEXICO 1,099 1,150 1,113 1,108 1,132
VENEZUELA 759 806 893 919 928
Source: Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries
There are perfectly good refineries in LA - TX sitting idle -- waiting to work. For the first time in decades, in 2012 the USA was a net exporter of refined petroleum products - why wouldn't you want to do more? - isn't there a skilled job shortage currently?
As for "mining" shale to produce hydrocarbons, not necessary in the vast Bakken "play" located in the Dakotas, Montana and Saskatchewan. Fracking ... yes ... mining, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_formation
Keep warm and mobile my friend, even in Arkansas it must be getting cool at nights now
MM
The Papacy - in Rome.
In other news, I think your numbers may be a trad 'dated'.
September 2011 Import Highlights: Released November 29, 2011
Monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in September 2011 has been released and it shows that three countries exported more than 1,000 thousand barrels per day to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 69 percent of United States crude oil imports in September while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 88 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top five sources of US crude oil imports for September were Canada (2,324 thousand barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1,465 thousand barrels per day), Mexico (1,099 thousand barrels per day), Venezuela (759 thousand barrels per day) and Nigeria (529 thousand barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Colombia (510 thousand barrels per day), Iraq (403 thousand barrels per day), Ecuador (299 thousand barrels per day), Angola (283 thousand barrels per day) and Russia (275 thousand barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 9,006 thousand barrels per day in September, which is a decrease of (16) thousand barrels per day from August 2011.
Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in September, exporting 2,829 thousand barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2,637 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Saudi Arabia with 1,479 thousand barrels per day.
Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Sep-11 Aug-11 YTD 2011 Sep-10 YTD 2010
CANADA 2,324 2,240 2,157 1,937 1,971
SAUDI 1,465 1,075 1,180 1,082 1,072
MEXICO 1,099 1,150 1,113 1,108 1,132
VENEZUELA 759 806 893 919 928
Source: Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries
There are perfectly good refineries in LA - TX sitting idle -- waiting to work. For the first time in decades, in 2012 the USA was a net exporter of refined petroleum products - why wouldn't you want to do more? - isn't there a skilled job shortage currently?
As for "mining" shale to produce hydrocarbons, not necessary in the vast Bakken "play" located in the Dakotas, Montana and Saskatchewan. Fracking ... yes ... mining, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_formation
Keep warm and mobile my friend, even in Arkansas it must be getting cool at nights now
MM
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mikewint
Captain
MichaelM, Not so far, had one night of 43F (6C). Have a heat-pump so just gasoline, and you are also correct I had some quick figures from 2010 laying around, but even so, note my 4 are still the same. Add the Saudi plus Iraq,Kuwait,Algeria, and Oman imports and that makes a good sized hole to fill AT A REASONABLE COST.
So again we have to deal reasonablly with unreasonable people who hate us from the start. Recall, all the 911 hijackers were Saudis.
I have no solution, wish I did. It is only a matter of time, IMHO, before one of their "headed to heaven" bombers shows up in New York, Chicago, or L.A. with a back-pack Nuke, Sarin, or Anthrax
So again we have to deal reasonablly with unreasonable people who hate us from the start. Recall, all the 911 hijackers were Saudis.
I have no solution, wish I did. It is only a matter of time, IMHO, before one of their "headed to heaven" bombers shows up in New York, Chicago, or L.A. with a back-pack Nuke, Sarin, or Anthrax
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- #47
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"... I have no solution, wish I did."
Continental self-sufficiency in oil.
MM
Continental self-sufficiency in oil.
MM
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muscogeemike
Senior Airman
A better question is why are we still there? There is nothing in Afghanistan we need, nothing. If someone else wants the problems let them deal with it.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Not to get too far out here, but "we" are not "we the people" any longer, its the global economy run by global corporations. They have their own agenda.
They give lots of money to polititions, and as we all know, money talks...I'm not necessarily a conspiracy nut, just something to think about.
They give lots of money to polititions, and as we all know, money talks...I'm not necessarily a conspiracy nut, just something to think about.
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- #50
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Rome and Carthage - two powerful military and commercial empires of old - were both "operated" by syndicates: just another name for big business.
I think "we the people" is an almost mythological term unless you are speaking of small nations or tribes ....
And let's recall that the Mediterranean was shut down for trade in the early period after the rapid, militaristic expansion of Islam out of the Arabian dessert. That didn't stop trade however ... the Swedes/Norse simply took the Baltic and rivers in Russia to get to their "sources".
MM
I think "we the people" is an almost mythological term unless you are speaking of small nations or tribes ....
And let's recall that the Mediterranean was shut down for trade in the early period after the rapid, militaristic expansion of Islam out of the Arabian dessert. That didn't stop trade however ... the Swedes/Norse simply took the Baltic and rivers in Russia to get to their "sources".
MM
mikewint
Captain
MichaelM, Besides the name, you and I are 95% on the same page, I just dont think we can go back to the 1900's and be isolationist. Can we ignore the fact that there are nuclear weapons in the mid-East? Perhaps Israel and their Arab friends decide to nuke it out! That Russia(USSR) is still a viable presence and would jump with both feet into a power vacuum, and China has their first aircraft carrier and has every intent to become a superpower.
Afgan, no we don't want the place but to a great extent it is the source of the terrorist infection. Can we afford to ignore the Taliban, give them an entire country to foment further terrorism, nuclear, biological, nerve gas, ect?
Like it or not we are on the tiger's back and getting off is not posible
Afgan, no we don't want the place but to a great extent it is the source of the terrorist infection. Can we afford to ignore the Taliban, give them an entire country to foment further terrorism, nuclear, biological, nerve gas, ect?
Like it or not we are on the tiger's back and getting off is not posible
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- #52
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Agreed. But we do NOT have to put up with grandstanding Islamic activists at home, Mike. This broad would be chopped in HER HOMELAND. The clip is tedious ... but ... more will come unless we stomp on "revisionist" interpretations of our laws and charters.
‘Defeat Jihad’ subway poster defaced; Egyptian-born columnist arrested in New York - thestar.com
MM
‘Defeat Jihad’ subway poster defaced; Egyptian-born columnist arrested in New York - thestar.com
MM
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mikewint
Captain
Michael, When rights are granted, they are granted to all, as I have stated before, the most protected must be the ones you diagree with the most. It is a viseral thing, I well remember my reactions to that so-called religeous group protesting at the funerals of soldiers. So I agree with the court, the signs have a right to be posted and she had no right to deface them. If you disagree, post your own signs, if you want your own free speech protect the free speech of others
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- #54
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"... When rights are granted, they are granted to all, as I have stated before .... if you want your own free speech protect the free speech of others..."
Bravo.
It seems so sensible, so fair, so natural a concept, and just. But it is turned back on us like a jujitsu move by a culture that will not speak up in citicism of its own actions and shortcomings yet at the same time attacks and weakens its "host" -- our culture.
I hesitated before posting that linked New York Post video because I dislike in-your-face journalism/activism - aka - I AM THE STORY PEOPLE, Journalism.
But ....... then I got to thinking ...
Imagine ...... Times Square Subway station - June, 1939:
After the horror and publicity of Kristallnacht , a Jewish group in New York pays for sponsored adds in the subway that reads:
IN ANY WAR BETWEEN THE CIVILIZED MAN AND THE SAVAGE,
SUPPORT THE CIVILIZED MAN
Sponsored by American Jewish Committee
for prevention of the Holocaust
Under such circumstances would Americans of German extraction and heritage have protested such signs - and called them racist? No. They would not. The German Consul in New York (a Nazi appointee) would have protested, certainly, but his complaint wouldn't be "racism" but rather the description of Germans as savages and uncivilized.
Well ... it's 2012 and the game has different players ... and seemingly different rules. But the stakes are higher than in '39.
MM
Proud Canadian
Bravo.
It seems so sensible, so fair, so natural a concept, and just. But it is turned back on us like a jujitsu move by a culture that will not speak up in citicism of its own actions and shortcomings yet at the same time attacks and weakens its "host" -- our culture.
I hesitated before posting that linked New York Post video because I dislike in-your-face journalism/activism - aka - I AM THE STORY PEOPLE, Journalism.
But ....... then I got to thinking ...
Imagine ...... Times Square Subway station - June, 1939:
After the horror and publicity of Kristallnacht , a Jewish group in New York pays for sponsored adds in the subway that reads:
IN ANY WAR BETWEEN THE CIVILIZED MAN AND THE SAVAGE,
SUPPORT THE CIVILIZED MAN
Sponsored by American Jewish Committee
for prevention of the Holocaust
Under such circumstances would Americans of German extraction and heritage have protested such signs - and called them racist? No. They would not. The German Consul in New York (a Nazi appointee) would have protested, certainly, but his complaint wouldn't be "racism" but rather the description of Germans as savages and uncivilized.
Well ... it's 2012 and the game has different players ... and seemingly different rules. But the stakes are higher than in '39.
MM
Proud Canadian
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Erich
the old Sage
have it on good authority IDF is mobilizing big time and I mean big time ...........
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- #56
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"Welcome Back Khadr" ....
Khadr eligible for parole next summer, lawyers say - Politics - CBC News
Arrived at CFB Trenton early yesterday morning on the red-eye from Gitmo ....
70% of Canadians polled thought he should STAY there.
Could be on the street this spring - good behavior, y'all know.
He has launched a CDN$10 Million lawsuit against Canadian taxpayers for our government's role in his mistreatment.
Meanwhile, in the Big House (Millhaven, ON),where he is currently a guest of our government, you don't need a birthday cake to conceal "contraband" when mom and the sis wear burkas.
MM
Proud Canadian
Khadr eligible for parole next summer, lawyers say - Politics - CBC News
Arrived at CFB Trenton early yesterday morning on the red-eye from Gitmo ....
70% of Canadians polled thought he should STAY there.
Could be on the street this spring - good behavior, y'all know.
He has launched a CDN$10 Million lawsuit against Canadian taxpayers for our government's role in his mistreatment.
Meanwhile, in the Big House (Millhaven, ON),where he is currently a guest of our government, you don't need a birthday cake to conceal "contraband" when mom and the sis wear burkas.
MM
Proud Canadian
Attachments
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mikewint
Captain
MichaelM, I do hear and on a viseral level I agree but then I remember pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984):
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
So it is an either/or. Either everyone has their full constitutional rights or no one has. Now I will preface that with this, a VERY slippery slope I know but, foreign nationals are not American citizens and do not get the same constitutioal rights. Human rights by all means and that needs to be addressed and defined.
Our system has good and bad and it is indeed used against us but it is the best system in the world for all its flaws
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
So it is an either/or. Either everyone has their full constitutional rights or no one has. Now I will preface that with this, a VERY slippery slope I know but, foreign nationals are not American citizens and do not get the same constitutioal rights. Human rights by all means and that needs to be addressed and defined.
Our system has good and bad and it is indeed used against us but it is the best system in the world for all its flaws
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- #58
michaelmaltby
Colonel
A staunch argument Mike .... but Pastor N was never a 'politician'. Like it or not politicians and the Military always must ensure that the individual "freedoms" don't usurp the greater societal needs ... in times of crisis and national emergency. Pastor N would not have interned the Japanese. Pastor N would never have authorized the use of the A bomb.
As I see it watching events .....: Either there is a 'pattern' of events taking place in and originating from the Moslem World or there is not .... only the 'random' passage of time and events.
I am not a conspiracy theorist - I detest such stuff. I am an Occam's Razor Man. For the most part I believe that the most obvious chain of events/explanation is usually the truth.
I am an historian, however, and I have worked and travelled in the M-E and enjoy M-E culture and cuisine. That said: I believe the chain of events ... Af'stan and the Soviets, rich Saudi Arabia, various embassy and barracks bombings, Mogadeshu, Trade Center attempt 1, Trade Center 9-11 ..... Libya a week ago .... the "movie" .... all these events are the behavior of a cunning would-be conqueror that is constantly testing, testing, testing our defenses.
If I'm paranoid, so be it. But if our society and values are truly under scripted attack .... I want to know. Don't you, Mike?.
MM
As I see it watching events .....: Either there is a 'pattern' of events taking place in and originating from the Moslem World or there is not .... only the 'random' passage of time and events.
I am not a conspiracy theorist - I detest such stuff. I am an Occam's Razor Man.
For the most part I believe that the most obvious chain of events/explanation is usually the truth.I am an historian, however, and I have worked and travelled in the M-E and enjoy M-E culture and cuisine. That said: I believe the chain of events ... Af'stan and the Soviets, rich Saudi Arabia, various embassy and barracks bombings, Mogadeshu, Trade Center attempt 1, Trade Center 9-11 ..... Libya a week ago .... the "movie" .... all these events are the behavior of a cunning would-be conqueror that is constantly testing, testing, testing our defenses.
If I'm paranoid, so be it. But if our society and values are truly under scripted attack .... I want to know. Don't you, Mike?.
MM
mikewint
Captain
MichaelM, indeed it is, I have no doubt whatever. Those who stand for individual freedom will always be under attack from those who wish to control others and have them do/think/behave/believe in the manner THEY think is the correct way. As a historian you should see this writ plain and clear over all history. Read the paragraph again. One by one the "wrong thinkers/doers/speakers" are eliminated until only the right thinkers are left. Which leaves only you and me, and sometimes I wonder about you. The US "Patriot Act" did and still scares the Bejesus out of me. Let's just suspend these inconvenient rights for a while, you know, just until the crises is over with, maybe. There is a thread on this forum about the Japanese Internment Camps during WWII did we learn nothing from these gross violations of constitutionally guaranteed rights. Do we defeat the enemy by becoming the enemy? "I have seen the enemy, and he is us"
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- #60
michaelmaltby
Colonel
"... did we learn nothing from these gross violations of constitutionally guaranteed rights".
YES we certainly did. The fact that we are discussing that internment tells you it was NOT swept under the carpet to be forgotten and denied. But - if the lesson learned from that was that having - in times of dire crisis - allowed the state to conduct such actions (internment) we would never repeat such actions again - then, that lesson is the wrong lesson learned. The more "individual rights/freedoms" are stressed - the greater the threat they become to a society from those who would overturn that society by turning it against itself.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather what YOU can do for your COUNTRY".
The collective trumps the individual when both are at risk from common peril. What rights and freedoms have been bestowed on your free, constitutional society by its current attackers, Mike? What have thy done to benefit America?
MM
YES we certainly did. The fact that we are discussing that internment tells you it was NOT swept under the carpet to be forgotten and denied. But - if the lesson learned from that was that having - in times of dire crisis - allowed the state to conduct such actions (internment) we would never repeat such actions again - then, that lesson is the wrong lesson learned. The more "individual rights/freedoms" are stressed - the greater the threat they become to a society from those who would overturn that society by turning it against itself.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather what YOU can do for your COUNTRY".
The collective trumps the individual when both are at risk from common peril. What rights and freedoms have been bestowed on your free, constitutional society by its current attackers, Mike? What have thy done to benefit America?
MM
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