Damping characteristic data for the Bf 109 landing gear struts

[Arbalete]

This may be a challenging request.

I am looking for damping characteristic data for the Bf 109 landing gear struts.

Background:
I am currently building a replica aircraft that is fitted with a pair of original Bf 109 landing gear dampers. As part of the certification process, the CAA requires a complete structural recalculation of the wing. This analysis must cover all applicable load cases, including various landing conditions.

To accurately model these landing load cases, the damping characteristics of the landing gear struts are required. While I have the landing gear assemblies themselves, I do not have any original technical data describing their damping behavior. I am confident that such data must exist in historical design documentation, test reports, or maintenance manuals.

Any information, references, or leads to relevant documentation would be greatly appreciated.

 

[GregP]

Will be at the museum tomorrow. I'll ask if we have tghat since we have a Hispoano Ha.1112. Might, can't say right now. Might not.

 

[Jaivan]

I haven't seen much info on the matter in archives.

For 8-2787-13/14 I have this, and only limited to load case 200 which, to my understanding, was the standard landing condition (Fall 221 was single-strut landing):


Your best bet will be contacting groups actually operating Bf 109 or Hispanos, like Flugmuseum Messerchmitt or MeierMotors

 

[Arbalete]

I truly appreciate all your contributions. Anything you can share may turn out to be another puzzle piece that helps complete the bigger picture.

In the meantime, I have made contact with the Messerschmitt team in Manching, as suggested. I also plan to visit the archive at the Fliegermuseum Dübendorf, which holds a vast collection of original Bf 109 documentation that may contain the required information. Unfortunately, this visit will not take place until the end of February, as I will not be available before then.

 

[slowoldguy]

Hi Arbalete,

I believe the Pilatus P-2 used the same landing gear. Maybe the information is available from Pilatus?

Regards,

Rob

 

[GregP]

Will be at the museum tomorrow. I'll ask if we have tghat since we have a Hispoano Ha.1112. Might, can't say right now. Might not.

Steve Hinton was not there this weekend, and I didn't find anyone else who might have an answer, but won'y give up.

 

[GregP]

This may be a challenging request.

I am looking for damping characteristic data for the Bf 109 landing gear struts.

Background:
I am currently building a replica aircraft that is fitted with a pair of original Bf 109 landing gear dampers. As part of the certification process, the CAA requires a complete structural recalculation of the wing. This analysis must cover all applicable load cases, including various landing conditions.

To accurately model these landing load cases, the damping characteristics of the landing gear struts are required. While I have the landing gear assemblies themselves, I do not have any original technical data describing their damping behavior. I am confident that such data must exist in historical design documentation, test reports, or maintenance manuals.

Any information, references, or leads to relevant documentation would be greatly appreciated.

What airplane are you building? Pic? or Description?

 

[Arbalete]

Here's my project:

Projekt-arbalete.ch

Pilatus is primarily focused on selling aircraft, and they weren't particularly cooperative when I requested information related to Arbalète data that originated there.

The largest aviation archive in Switzerland is housed at the Fliegermuseum in Dübendorf, which contains vast amounts of blueprints and documentation on airplanes that one would not expect to show up there. However, they struggle with proper cataloging and oversight. Gaining access requires prior permission, and research must be done in person by digging through large quantities of paper records. Spent may days there already, more to come.

GregP Please give my best regards to Steve Hinton. I met him many moons ago, just before he took on flying the Swiss DH-100, at a time when I was still flying them myself.

 

[Engineman]

I haven't seen much info on the matter in archives.

For 8-2787-13/14 I have this, and only limited to load case 200 which, to my understanding, was the standard landing condition (Fall 221 was single-strut landing):
View attachment 862541

Your best bet will be contacting groups actually operating Bf 109 or Hispanos, like Flugmuseum Messerchmitt or MeierMotors

Thanks for posting this. Some very good original details here.

Cheers

Eng

 

[Engineman]

Hi Arbalete,

I believe the Pilatus P-2 used the same landing gear. Maybe the information is available from Pilatus?

Regards,

Rob

Hi,

Yes, the Pilatus P.2 did use a similar undercarriage leg to the Bf 109, but there are many versions of "109" and many different types of U/C leg. The general details in available German partslist show:
109 E, 8-2787.03(L) and .04(R), 109 F .05 and .06, 109 G (early) .11 and .12, 109 G 5 .13 and .14. The earlier 109 probably had the .01 and .02 leg versions also, the very late 109 definitely had different versions. I have worked on the Pilatus, 109 E, G, K-4 legs and they are all different in detail. Unfortunately, I do not know the Pilatus or K-4 part numbers.
It is likely that Pilatus changed some details of the legs on the P.2, which had a max weight of less than 4,000lb, very likely a lower charge pressure, but possibly different oil volume and
possibly some physical changes.

Cheers

Eng

 

[GregP]

Here's my project:

Projekt-arbalete.ch

Pilatus is primarily focused on selling aircraft, and they weren't particularly cooperative when I requested information related to Arbalète data that originated there.

The largest aviation archive in Switzerland is housed at the Fliegermuseum in Dübendorf, which contains vast amounts of blueprints and documentation on airplanes that one would not expect to show up there. However, they struggle with proper cataloging and oversight. Gaining access requires prior permission, and research must be done in person by digging through large quantities of paper records. Spent may days there already, more to come.

GregP Please give my best regards to Steve Hinton. I met him many moons ago, just before he took on flying the Swiss DH-100, at a time when I was still flying them myself.

Very cool airplane! I have liked it for years.

I spoke with Steve (will say "Hi" next time I see him for you.)

He is unfamiliar with the damping characteristics specifications and said he has never seen a damping characteristic chart, graph, or anything. He said a Bf-109 was about 7,500 - 8,100 pounds loaded and about 5,900 - 6,100 pounds empoty. If your airplane is in that range, the gear should be fine to any agency. The documentation we have for the Ha-1112 does not show gear damping characteristics. It is more of a user and assembly / repair manual set than a design document.

 

[Arbalete]

Thanks for checking into this, Greg. I spoke with the team at the Messerschmitt Museum in Manching, but they couldn't turn up any solid information either. My last hope is the archive in Dübendorf, which I'll be visiting in about three weeks.