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Specifications (He 177 A-5/R2)
Data from Heinkel He 177-277-274. Shrewsbury, England: Airlife Publishing. 1998. pp. 223, 229.
General characteristics
Crew: 6
Length: 22 m (72 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 31.44 m (103 ft 1¾ in)
Height: 6.67 m (21 ft 10 in)
Wing area: 100.00 m² (1,076.40 ft²)
Empty weight: 16,800 kg (37,038 lb)
Loaded weight: 32,000 kg (70,548 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Daimler-Benz DB 610 24-cylinder liquid-cooled inline piston engines, 2,900 PS (2,133 kW) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 565 km/h (351 mph) at 6,000 (19,685 ft)
Stall speed: 135 km/h (84 mph)
Combat radius: 1,540 km (957 mi) (One way with bombload, can hit targets in that radius and return home)
Ferry range: 5,600 km (3,480 mi)
Service ceiling: 8,000 m (26,246 ft)
Rate of climb: 190 m/min (623 ft/min)
Wing loading: 303.9 kg/m² (62.247 lb/ft²)
Armament
Guns: **1 × 7.92 mm MG 81 machine gun in "fishbowl" nose glazing
1 × 20 mm MG 151 cannon in forward ventral Bola gondola position
1 × 13 mm MG 131 machine gun in rear ventral Bola gondola position
2 × 13 mm MG 131 machine guns in FDL 131Z remotely operated forward dorsal turret, full 360° traverse
1 × 13 mm MG 131 machine gun in manned Hydraulische Drehlafette DL 131I aft dorsal turret
1 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon in tail position
Bombs: Up to 6,000 kg (13,227 lb) of ordnance internally/7,200 kg (15,873 lb) externally or up to 3 Fritz X or Henschel Hs 293 PGMs (w/FuG 203 Kehl MCLOS transmitter installed)
48 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs (2,400 kg/5,291 lb total)
1 × 2,500 kg (5,511 lb) bomb (2,500 kg/5,511 lb total)
12 × 250 kg (551 lb) bombs (3,000 kg/6,613 lb total)
6 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs (3,000 kg/6,613 lb total)
2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs (3,600 kg/7,936 lb total)
2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs + 2 × LMA III mines (4,600 kg/10,141 lb total)
10 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs (5,000 kg/11,023 lb total)
2 × 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) bombs + 2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs (5,600 kg/12,345 lb total)
6 × 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) bombs (6,000 kg/13,227 lb total)
2 × FX 1400 Fritz X + 1 × FX 1400 Fritz X under the wings and fuselage (w/FuG 203 Kehl MCLOS transmitter installed)
2 × Hs 293 or 294 + 1 × Hs 293 or 294 under the wings and fuselage (w/FuG 203 Kehl MCLOS transmitter installed)
2 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs internally + 2 × Hs 293 under the wings (w/FuG 203 Kehl MCLOS transmitter installed)
2 × LT 50 torpedoes under the wing
Specifications (He 277 basic configuration)
From Griehl, Manfred and Dressel, Joachim. Heinkel He 177-277-274, Airlife Publishing, Shrewsbury, England 1998, pp. 159 184.
General characteristics
Crew: 7
Length: 23.00 m (75 ft 5 in)
Wingspan: 40.00 m (131 ft 3 in)
Height: 6.05 m (19 ft 10-3/16 in)
Wing area: 133.00 m² (1,431.60 ft²)
Empty weight: 21,800 kg (48,060 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 44,500 kg (98,105 lb)
Powerplant: 4× BMW 801E 14-cylinder, twin row-radial engine, 1,492 kW (1,973 hp for takeoff) each
maximum of 16,950 litre/4,478 US gallon fuel/consumables capacity for Amerika Bomber mission profile
Performance
Maximum speed: 570 km/h at 5,700 m (354 mph at 18,700 ft)
Cruise speed: 460 km/h (286 mph)
Range: 6,000 km (3,728 mi, up to 11,100 km/6,900 mi in Amerika Bomber role)
Service ceiling: 15,000 m (49,210 ft)
Wing loading: 334.6 kg/m² at MTOW (68.6 lb/ft²)
Armament
2 × 20 mm (0.79 in) MG 151/20 autocannon in remotely operated, undernose Fernbedienbare Drehlafette FDL 151 Z "chin" turret
4 × 20 mm (0.79 in) MG 151/20 autocannon in twin dorsal turrets, one FDL-type remotely operated forward and one aft Hydraulische Drehlafette HDL 151Z hydraulically powered manned turret
2 × 20 mm (0.79 in) MG 151/20 autocannon in FDL-style remotely operated, ventral turret facing aft, behind bomb bay
4 x 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine guns in Hecklafette HL 131V "quadmount", manned tail turret
up to 3,000 kg (6,612 lb) of disposable stores for Amerika Bomber trans-Atlantic missions.
Any thoughts about what the targets would be? I'm thinking that initially it would be Moscow and the surrounding power infrastructure, with later oil refineries after Case Blue failed. Later still would be the Ural factories and probably Leningrad or some other industrial target in range.Interesting thought
Possible targets -semi strategic in a tactical sense - industrial targets with large rail heads - kill troops and supplies that might be in the process of being directed towards the front, perhaps preceding or during a Reich forces offencive... or on the defencive - attacking in a counter -attacking defencive manner, although die kliener moustachio would have political freedom to redirect targetting as per his usual.
By 1941 Heinkel Oranienburg had over 6,000 employees building Ju-88 light bombers. You want them to make He-177s instead?effect be of having such an aircraft available for the Luftwaffe at the start of Barbarossa?
He-177 was a large, expensive aircraft to purchase and operate.
If DB603 engines are available during 1941 Germany might get more bang for the buck by kicking the Do-217 bomber program into high gear. The Do-217 is plenty large enough for operations from Norway.
Germany could also consider a Ju-88H (i.e. stretch fuselage) variant powered by DB603 engines. This might be the most cost effective option of all.
Care is needed when drawing conclusions from raw and unqualified figures in Wikipedia type sources.
The four engined concept,now with BMW 801 engines,was resurrected in March 1943 under the initial designation He 177 B,then A-8,possibly to disguise the fact that Heinkel were once again considering four engines.
Cheers
Steve
Based on some of these descriptions, it looks like the He177B as tested historically looked and performed like the He277.When the V102 was tested later that autumn while still flying with its A-series wing and powerplants before its own pair of B-series "four engine" wing units were ready, the new twin vertical tails gave the V102 significantly better in-flight handling when compared to the original He 177A's single tail design, except during the landing approach when the Fowler flaps were extended during its own initial flights with the twin tails in November 1943.[32
And the DB603 was used as the engine, not the BMW801.the V102, was both the first He 177B example to fly with the quartet of DB 603 engines on December 20, 1943 in combination with a brand-new empennage of twin tail configuration, fitted to it during the early autumn of 1943...the outer edge of the DB 603's inner engine nacelle/wing surface juncture was located right at the "centreline" of each of the twin pairs of A-series main gear strut locations, on all four of the B-series prototypes.
Except the Jumo222 never entered production and historically the He177B didn't enter testing until 1943, which it should have done in 1938.They did make a He 177b with 4 Ju222 on it.
Nearly four years after Herr Heinkel had unsuccessfully requested two of the prototype He 177 V-series airframes to be built with four individual powerplants, the RLM's requirement for the He 177 to perform diving attacks was finally rescinded in September 1942 by Göring himself, and with that decision finally rendered, Heinkel's design work on the pair of "separately" four-engined versions of the He 177A, the A-8 and A-10, collectively renamed the He 177B in August 1943 were then able to progress, meant to be powered with four individual Daimler-Benz DB 603 engines on new longer-span wings, with each liquid-cooled DB 603 fitted with a Heinkel He 219-style annular radiator right behind the propeller for engine cooling. This task was accomplished in a considerably later timeframe than British aircraft designer Roy Chadwick had done in similarly converting the Avro Manchester. The Manchester, like the A-series Greif (with its coupled DB 606s and 610s) had depended on two very powerful and quite troublesome 24-cylinder powerplants, the British Rolls-Royce Vulture, but by 1941 had been redesigned with four Rolls-Royce Merlins, as the Avro Lancaster.
It is possible, from some accounts, that the V101 prototype might have survived until at least February 1945 (as the V102 had) before it was scrapped, as at least a pair of photos of what is stated as the wrecked V101 place it at Cheb in May 1945, and allegedly showing that the V101 had even been test-fitted with a quartet of Junkers Jumo 222 engines, if verified, would conflict with Heinkel records as to the V101 having been scrapped.
They did make a He 177b with 4 Ju222 on it.
There was some rumors of the Jumo222, but nothing confirmed,
So if we go back to assuming the classic What If, Wever not dying in 1936, then the He177 doesn't run into its massive technical, manufacturing, and doctrinal problems, as Udet and Goering are not determining all of the above.
Also with the DB603 getting funding from 1937-1940 instead of it being cancelled and then reactivated, it should be ready in 1941 for mass manufacturing
The problem with this is that by the time Rechlin got the aircraft it had already been modified heavily so that it could dive bomb. The reference mentioned above is to removing dive bombing from the mission profile, but still problems with horizontal bombing AFTER all of the massive modifications to make it dive bombing capable that threw the design off balance. That's not to say that there still wouldn't be problems with the design during testing, but the massive deviations in 1937 from the original design to shoehorn diving into the requirement changed the aircraft into a design monstrosity that was compromised. They didn't suddenly go back to the original design after changing it to make it dive bombing capable, they kept the modification that engineered into the aircraft as required by Udet in 1937. The point is that HAD the design NOT been modified from its original conception (minus minor changes to the cockpit and surface evaporative cooling that were needed) it is far less likely to have those problems that it historically experienced from the major modifications that unbalanced the aircraft.There were still huge problems with the original design. Most worrying was the wing. Even removing the need for dive bombing the wing was 30% weaker than Heinkel's estimates. That's according to a Rechlin report.