December 8, 1941, who would you have relieved of Command in the Pacific?

pinehilljoe · Jan 26, 2018

I would have relieved GEN Short, the Army was responsible for the defense of Hawaii and GEN MacArthur, the Philipines had a 9 hour warning after Pearl Harbor , and were still taken by surprise.

I would not have relieved ADM Kimmel. The fleet at anchor was surprised, but units at sea performed well, and showed the peace time Navy could transition to War footing.

Capt. Vick · Jan 30, 2018

Given the power, Yamamoto. LOL

newst · Feb 1, 2018

I wouldn't have changed a thing. Some of the decisions made at the time were likely unfair but in the end we did win. That's what counted.

XBe02Drvr · Feb 3, 2018

pinehilljoe said:
GEN MacArthur, the Philipines had a 9 hour warning after Pearl Harbor , and were still taken by surprise.

From what I've read, seems MacArthur was aware of what had happened at Pearl Harbor, but didn't believe any imminent threat to Manila because he thought IJN aviation wouldn't be able to reach him there for several days at best. He didn't think the airbases on Formosa had the range to bomb him in the Philippines. The Betty and the Zero came as a rude shock to him.
Besides, he was an Army man infested with the terrestrial perspective that land based aviation was always more capable than naval aviation. Therefore he thought in terms of IJA bases and ranges. The IJN bases on Formosa were thought to be for fleet support and patrol aircraft.
Cheers,
Wes

swampyankee · Feb 3, 2018

newst said:
I wouldn't have changed a thing. Some of the decisions made at the time were likely unfair but in the end we did win. That's what counted.

The question may be whether a better decision could be made, with the information available at the time, where a better decision would lead to a shorter war with fewer casualties.

Freebird · Feb 9, 2018

I can't help but think that Brereton did a crappy job, there must have been somebody more capable

swampyankee · Feb 9, 2018

XBe02Drvr said:
From what I've read, seems MacArthur was aware of what had happened at Pearl Harbor, but didn't believe any imminent threat to Manila because he thought IJN aviation wouldn't be able to reach him there for several days at best. He didn't think the airbases on Formosa had the range to bomb him in the Philippines. The Betty and the Zero came as a rude shock to him.
Cheers,
Wes

Macarthur was far from alone in underestimating Japanese capabilities. How much of this was due to just plain bad intelligence and how much was due to American racial attitudes (both Italian and German PoWs observed that they frequently had more freedom of movement that the black American troops guarding them), with these potentially shaping analyses of intelligence data, is a question that's never really been answered.

cherry blossom · Feb 9, 2018

It was probably a good idea to replace Kimmel with Nimitz because Nimitz was one of the best commanders of WW2. However, allowing Kimmel to leave before Nimitz arrived from Washington may have been a serious error as Adm. Pye did not make a good job of what Lundstrom, for example, calls the "Wake Fiasco" in which the USN missed the chance to fight their first carrier battle with a 3-2 advantage in carrier numbers and better in aircraft whilst also losing Wake Island and its garrison.

XBe02Drvr · Feb 9, 2018

swampyankee said:
Macarthur was far from alone in underestimating Japanese capabilities. How much of this was due to just plain bad intelligence and how much was due to American racial attitudes (both Italian and German PoWs observed that they frequently had more freedom of movement that the black American troops guarding them), with these potentially shaping analyses of intelligence data, is a question that's never really been answered.

Chennault and others provided them with credible intelligence which was promptly discarded as "maverick" and "unaccredited source" and "alarmist". It was just too incredible in view of the prevailing perception of Japanese capabilities.
Cheers,
Wes

XBe02Drvr · Feb 9, 2018

cherry blossom said:
the USN missed the chance to fight their first carrier battle with a 3-2 advantage in carrier numbers and better in aircraft

It's a good thing they missed that chance, or we would have been fighting the war with even fewer carriers available. I think that even with a numerical advantage, our naval aviators would have been slaughtered and one or more carriers sunk. These guys were still essentially peacetime aviators, having missed the dance at Pearl and lacking first hand experience with Japanese aircraft. Fleet air defenses still had no inkling of the blue-water capabilities of Japanese dive and torpedo bombers. They had no clue how suicidal their doctrine and tactics would be against this enemy. Battle of Midway in reverse.
Cheers,
Wes

Thunderhawk · Feb 9, 2018

That question is hard to answer because of what we now know. Based on the info available at the time, and the US being in a near-panic that we had been surprised and badly mauled in Hawaii, I can understand the firing of Gen. Short and Adm. Kimmel. Gen. MacArthur should also have been relieved for not taking adequate precautions to protect his forces (especially his aircraft, which were caught on the tarmac!)

December 8, 1941, who would you have relieved of Command in the Pacific?

More options

pinehilljoe

Senior Airman

Capt. Vick

Moderator

newst

Airman

XBe02Drvr

2nd Lieutenant

swampyankee

Chief Master Sergeant

Freebird

Master Sergeant

swampyankee

Chief Master Sergeant

cherry blossom

Senior Airman

XBe02Drvr

2nd Lieutenant

XBe02Drvr

2nd Lieutenant

Thunderhawk

Recruit

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads