Details on January 14 1945 (1 Viewer)

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Hiyas:

Glad you found those excerpts interesting. Njaco, you've piqued my curiosity ;) I looked into that day a bit more and found some more information bearing on the events of 14 January that may be of interest:

No recounting of the events of 14 January 1945 would be complete without giving the 357th Fighter Group their due. They were credited with 56 1/2 victories that day! Here's some more bits related to their activity that day.

357th FG Mission Summary for 14 January 1945

Lt. Col. Irwin H. Dregne's summary of the 14 January 1945 mission

357th Unit History for January I redid this this with much cleaner images and added the roster and list of claims.

Part of the Field order showing times and locations

Unit Citation for the 14 January Mission

The 356th FG claimed 11 Fw 190's in the Dummer Lake area: 356th FG Mission Summary for 14 January

The 355th FG claimed 11 in engagements near Meppen and Dummer Lake: 355th FG Journal and Mission Summary for14 January 1945

Mike
 
interesting Mike, I have been in touch the last 2 weeks with a 361st fs chap of the 356th fg and he states without a doubt 13 Fw's were shot down plus interception of at least 2 Me 262's but failed as the 262's just put it in high gear and elft the P-51's standing. In relation to this the same info is in their produced history book.

cheers and thanks for adding

E
 
Hello Erich:

Thanks for sharing that information about the 356th FG being credited with 13 victories on 14 Jan 45. That's interesting. I don't know why the difference between the Mission Summary Report and your information but I'll venture a few possibilities. At the time the Mission Report was written there were three pilots who were still on the continent, not yet returned (Turner, Burden Cope). Perhaps they subsequently submitted claims that were then approved. There are claims for four E/A damaged listed on the Mission Report Summary. Perhaps two of these were upgraded to destroyed after gun camera film review by the Victory Credits Board. I've seen that done. The third possibility that comes to mind would be that a flight might have escorted a PRU Spitfire and scored a couple of E/A. I know that the 355th sent a flight to escort a PRU Spitfire that same day. This occurred regularly, often independent of the main mission.

Mike
 
good thoughts Mike. probably the second one.

I note 22 pilots of the 361st fs flying the date, 20 for the 360th fs

Barnhart of the 360th 1 destroyed
Ted Urban of the 360th 1 destroyed

361st fs
C. Ashby 2 destroyed
W. Baskin 1 destroyed
the above two pilots then shared 1 destroyed
C.Burdick 2 destroyed
Hooker 2 destroyed and 1 Me 262 damaged over Hesepe airfield
Don Strait 1 destroyed
M. Baylor 1 destroyed
W. Jarvis 1 destroyed
 
Ah, there you go Erich; it was Lt. F. F. Hooker's two that were not counted on the Mission Summary Report. He baled from flak damage and must have reported those in later. Adding his two gives you the 13. Nice work.

Mike
 
It seems that at least the former was an aircraft of III./JG 26,.....10.Staffel's Lt. Walter Kopp was killed.

I also have a Lt. Walter kropp, staffelfurher of 6./JG 301 as being wounded in this same combat.

Are they the same or just coincidence?

Thanks
 
Forgot to add that this Lt. Kropp (6./JG 301) was wounded over Brandenburg.
Don't know if that helps.
 
Walter Kropp the one you speak of became Staffelführer of 8th staffel and yet was still flying D-9's as 8th staffel did not have any but A-9's. He was shot down by P-51's of the 352nd fg on March 2, 1945 flying Red 1 which was a 6th staffel machine, and most likely a carry over for him from that staffel. Am not at all sure if he is the same on earlier flying in JG 26.
 
I'd like to get more information on this air battle. My Great Uncle was a Bombardier on one of the first B-17's that was shot down. He was apart of the 390th BG, 571st Squadron that was lost on the way to the Derben Oil Refineries. I have a copy of the MACR as well as the German report of the crash site where his body was recovered. The navigator was the only survivor on his plane. I have letters written to my grandmother by the navigator describing what happened from his viewpoint shortly after he returned home from the war. I also have his current contact information if anyone is interested in his perspective.

Please continue to post anymore findings. It is very important to my family records and I appreciate the amount of detail that has been shared so far.

Also, does anyone know of any guncam footage that may be archived of this air battle?

Thanks again for all your work.
 
all 390th bg losses were to fighters from JG 300. I'll do some more research and get back to you but no gun cam footage in particular to this date as far as I know. the 357th fg made a total shambles of JG 300 and JG 301, one of the few losses was to an Fw 190A-? from JG 301 in a very violent dog fight, the German in this case got the upper hand.. and guess who it was guys/gals ? you know whom.....Will Reschke

and yes I would be interested in the recollections of the navigator.......... Hey am I chatting with Bob K. ? if so hey how are you doing, we really got into conversation about this back in the fall of 2001. I've got the update on JG 300 and JG 301 since then ........ welcome aboard
 
eric - rereading the Graham and mills 355FG account of the first encounter N coblenz, 4 of the Fw190s were flying top cover (which they shot down) - it sounds like 190Ds but not confirmation
 
questionable, JG 300 had no Doras........yet. III./JG 301 Fw 190A-8 and A-8/R2's wanted to pluck the bombers but were in intense combat with P-51's with a terrible height dis-advantage, will have to say the JG 301 members did not speak of German ground control too fondly this date, as they vectored them right in amongst the P-51 escorts..........JG 301 was up in the air piecemeal and was not strictly in an attack formation as they tired to gain altitude. at least 3-4 Doras of Stab and II. gruppe were shot down, but also Doras of JG 2 and JG 26 were in combat and became losses. I am going to assume that their were at least 15 Dora 9's of Stab and II. gruppe up ion the air
 
please do Bill............

I want to compare with JG 301 which is scant brief as always. second thought you could be right on the monies with the D-9 kills
 
I think there is some confusion here.



JG 26 was west of Dummer Lak and I feel that the 355th fg engaged them though there is a note that the 78th fg may hae been in the area.

I just finished talking to Gordy Graham about the 14th. He is beyond a shaow of a doubt that the four Fw190Ds (specifically 'long nose Fw190D') plus the 5 Me109s and two Fw190As (or D's - not clear from encounter reports) they shot down were in a fight northeast of Munster, west of Dummer Lake and East of Meppen. For him it was his proudest mission.

Two Flights of 354FS plus one flight of three of 357FS, led by Elder, took on the Fw190d/190A/Me109 force and Everybody in the two flights of 354 shot down at least one, Elder getting the only 357 score.

I keep thinking based on Caldwell's JG26 book that all the II. III./JG26 losses including Vogt's was in Koln area not further north. What source do you have that is putting Vogt's crash SW Dummer rather than Koln area?

The 355th claims do match the JG26 losses better than the 78th but they were 60+ miles further north than 78th.
 
Bill didn't I mention in your quote by me that it was JG 26 ?

JG 301 was way too far to the east. JG 2 would be the other alternative

sorry for not responding by private my email is down for a time .........

E
 
sent you a private as I kicked my email acct hard.............hope you receive it

JG 2 had shot down : 5 Fw 190D-9's from I. and III./JG 2 in the area of Altenstadet, Lich and Hagenau. not sure if the Allied units were RAF or US.

E ~
 
sent you a private as I kicked my email acct hard.............hope you receive it

JG 2 had shot down : 5 Fw 190D-9's from I. and III./JG 2 in the area of Altenstadet, Lich and Hagenau. not sure if the Allied units were RAF or US.

E ~

It just has to be JG26 which would mean that Caldwell's source may have been incorrect re: fight at, and SW, Koln...that is 80-100 miles south from 355th clash.
 

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