I wonder how they counted those holes in shot down aircraft ?
You do realize a high percentage of them are going to be nothing but smoking holes in the ground don't you ?
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Read the German's accounts of losses to bomber guns. They kept great records for most of the war and knew which planes attacked which bomber type as formations were mostly of a single type and they deduced that holes in the front came from bomber guns and in the back from fighter guns.
That is how we know that B-17s shot down more EA than any fighter plane type. ( EA = Enemy Aircraft!) Aunt Viola asked, so I thought I better make that clear?
Read the German's accounts of losses to bomber guns. They kept great records for most of the war and knew which planes attacked which bomber type as formations were mostly of a single type and they deduced that holes in the front came from bomber guns and in the back from fighter guns.
That is how we know that B-17s shot down more EA than any fighter plane type. ( EA = Enemy Aircraft!) Aunt Viola asked, so I thought I better make that clear?
Yes! You got it all! But the idea is not to go slow and the faster you are going the more maneuver power you have and the less likely you are to get shot down. Ever hear the pilot's adage that "Speed is life!"?
That might be one of the reasons that a German fighter pilot would pick the Me 262 over an FW 190D.
The P-38 was depending on what you were trying to do, either the fastest prop plane of WW-II, ( Economy Cruise!) or one of the fastest planes at larger throttle settings and at higher altitudes it was the second fastest prop plane of the war behind only the Ta-152H on the juice! When combined with the absence of torque and P-effect plus CL guns, made it the best all around combat plane of WW-II, based on it's abilities in the hands of a great pilot.
Read the German's accounts of losses to bomber guns. They kept great records for most of the war and knew which planes attacked which bomber type as formations were mostly of a single type and they deduced that holes in the front came from bomber guns and in the back from fighter guns.
When faced with a company front attack, US airmen were instructed to avoid combat to keep LW statistics in order.Luftwaffe fighters never attacked allied fighters head-on? Thanks for clearing that up
Well they still occasionally dig up planes in UK that were shot down in the second world war, when hitting earth/clay the engine is between 2 and 3 metres below the surface, good luck finding the bullet holes in that.I don't suppose that Shooter is familiar with deflection shots.. or has researched clear evidence of 8th AF claims to actual LW losses when zero escort fighters were in the area.
All of my "Check rides" were either in the KSA, or Incerlik AFB and between 1980 and 1986. I spent 3 years in each Nation, but only one in Incerlik as I was up in Sinope for two years when I was not TDY near the Ruski boarder. In Saudi Arabia, I was at Taif KSA Air Base the whole time. I do not have any pictures left at all. My home was burglarized 5-6 years ago and all my camera equipment ( A Mamiya RZ-67, two Nikon F-3s, A Yashikaflex TLR, a Half frame Olympus, two Minolta 16s, A Bollieu(SP) Super-8 Movie Camera and dozens of lenses were stolen along with my weather proof Aluminum Cary Strongbox full of negatives. They must have been very sad when they finally got it open and there was no gear inside, only orange negatives. I still have a print of Prince XXXX over Makah. That was my first shot. In it he flew a large right hand turn near Makah while our American Instructor Pilot flew a matching, but inverted turn so I could shoot his plane out of the top of the canopy with Makah in the back ground! It was a publicity shot celebrating the first flight of an Arab in Space on our shuttle who also was an F-15 Pilot. I did it for my American boss who wanted a unusual, but stunning gift for said Prince. Then the word got out because anyone could recognize his face.
I have a second question for you; When I was over there, a Saudi Pilot in an F-15 shot down two F-4s over the Persian Gulf. The Story circulated goes like this;
He was on a Missile Qualifying flight when the E-3 Sentry that was on a demo flight trying to sell it to the Saudis picked them up flying low over the water. There were no other planes in a position to reach them before they got to some place dangerous so the Arab and his American Instructor Pilot were vectored to intercept. The Saudi lost his cool and the American had to "Talk" him through it, some even stated he had to undo his safety belts and reach over the Arab's shoulder to set the switches in time to make the shot! They got both planes which were in close formation with the single Sparrow missile?
Do you know if any of this is true, or is it all BS told around the Friday evening Poker table after the news got out? By the way, one of the regulars was that Saudi prince who's picture I took and he claimed it was all true. I still do not know if they were all in on it and I was the Patsy, or it was true?
I have a slow sence of humor and still am the favorite straight man in every crowd.
Have you ever actually looked at pictures of said "Smoking holes in the ground"? You would be surprised how much stuff survives the impact, especially from WW-II planes as they are not nearly as dense as modern stuff and their impact speeds are very low in comparison.
As to your first question, it is easy to tell whether a hole, any hole, in the spinner, engine and or cowl, windshield, wings, etc, came from the front of back. Also, many pilots rode them down to crash landings, or to walk-a-ways after which they wrote the plane off, etc... so they just asked the pilot! Or they found the wreckage to salvage the metal and took note of the condition it was in. After all, they were very AR back then.
I've only been to a few crash sites to help EOD recover munitions. T-28s A1E, etc. sometimes the wreckage was so mangled, it would take someone with intimate knowledge of that particular aircraft to figure out what part came from where.
The Germans were using children to man their flak batteries, slaves to assemble their aircraft, they didn't have the spare personnel to send skilled people out and assess the damage on every shot down aircraft.
BS as usual from you shooter8.
The Fowler Flaps were installed on the P-38F mid-production onwards and were extensions on the trailing edges of the wing center section. They were not used in a dive.
View attachment 349598
The Dive Recovery Flaps were embedded in the wings, just outboard of each engine and when deployed, would restore the lift boundary, during compression, back to the confines of the wing.
View attachment 349599
So without the dive recovery flaps, where does the compression happen?
Is it to where the flaps in the wings won't move or the flaps in the tail won't move?
Also, without the dive flaps, short of it being a fatal mistake, when can the pilot regain control? At lower altitudes where the air is more dense or only when/if the plane slows down so the compression goes away?
Hmmm...yes, I recall that post of mine. I had to keep trying to repost it because the server and my ipad do not play well together.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that all models of the P-38 were equipped with Fowler flaps. From the F model on they were equipped with a mode that allowed them to be partially extended (8 degrees IIRC) to enhance maneuverability at lower speeds. But as far as I know the same flap style was on all models.