tanker1408
Airman
- 13
- Mar 26, 2010
It was believed before, that a KT was never penetrated frontally. This Forum has shown that the turret front was pierced
Do you actually read what I write in my posts? I claimed the front galcis was never penetrated in combat. Nor did it ever split or fall apart.
I suppose on the spalling/weld craking thing - the Soviet guns were large, and relied on this effect and were: 85mm, 100mm, 122mm and 152mm.
Where is the actual EVIDENCE for this Soviet propaganda nonsense??There isn't even one picture of Tiger II's cracking or splitting. There ARE pictures of large numbers of hits on King Tiger's front glacis plate that failed to penetrate time and time again though.
Don't believe Soviet bullcrap about Tiger IIs falling apart due to poor armour.
Also, Soviet armour was apparently very prone to spalling, so even the 75mm KwK 40 caused spalling on the IS-2s armour.
You have got to be kidding me. Are you seriously suggesting that T34s and IS-2s were built to the same quality as German tanks? If anyone actually has a close up look at WW2 soviet tanks you will see how badly they were put together. The weld joins are off and the plates often don't even angle up properly. The casting is poor, the steel quality finish is super rough, almost crude.
The Soviets didn't care. They just wanted to make as many as they could and didn't bother going for the immaculate and eye pleasing finish that the Germans did.
NO WAY were Soviet tanks built to the same 'quality' as German tanks.
German tanks had better quality steel and gun optics (best in the world) and had better precision engineering than any Soviet tank. That was one of the reasons why Germany didn't build enough. They built them TOO well if anything. The Soviets (in contrast) didn't care about quality.
Apparently, the Panzershreck could only penetrat 160mm of vertical armour - making the frotal arc of the KT quite safe from it.
Once again you are incorrect. Panzerschreck rocket could penetrate over 200 mm of armor.
Yet at almost point blank range it couldn't penetrate the King Tiger's front glacis plate and no THE TANK DIDN'T FALL APART OR SPLIT IT'S WELDS.
Panzerschreck was considered deadly to even the Soviet IS-2 tanks frontally during the Berlin battles.
These things (and panzerfausts) gave the Soviets more nightmares than tanks during the Berlin fighting, because often they couldn't even see where they were hidden in the rubble right in front of them at 100 yards or less.
I suppose that is a misleading question. By this point, everything was in turmoil - so if a KT got seperated and ended up at Dessau?... Not saying that is definately what happened,but it is possible. If the crew were lost, distressed, sperated, tired and alone, it would also explain why they weren't so on the ball.
No its absolutely impossible that there were detached units with single King Tigers which remain unidentified. In addition to the actual movements and combat records of the 'battalions' proper, we also know all about these last minute gathered together ad hoc units as well, such as Rgt Holzer or Gruppe Fehrmann, or Pz Dv Clausewitz and Paderborn etc.
None of them had any King Tigers anywhere near Dessau. Don't you think it's very suspicious that we DO have pics of the 'regular' Pershing which took out the Tiger I at Elsdorf in Feb 1944 but we don't have any of the even more fascinating 'Super Pershing v King Tiger' duel at Dessau. The wreck would have been there for ages, U.S troops occupied the town and the war was at an end. The perfect opportunity to document and capture in images this tussel...yet there is nothing.
The allies claimed to fight Tigers everywhere. They didn't.
- and, depending on how this Thread pans out, maybe the lower front hull too. Maybe evidence will emerge that the glacis was penetrated?
FACT: NO KING TIGERS WERE AT DESSAU AND THE FRONT GLACIS WAS NEVER PENETRATED IN COMBAT! End of story!
the Kubinka tests show that the initial hits were made by 122mm's - and penetrated (though this happening in combat would be unlikely, IMO).
Training ground tests are worthless. Of course the armour gets easier to penetrate after lobbing lots of 122 mm AP and HE shells at it. The tank you are firing at isn't firing back and repeated hits on a static object that is dead and not alive isn't telling. You have time to engage and refine your shots easily.
The Soviets though, always pelted any vehicle they came across with large-calibre guns, rather than aimed shots using smaller-calibre ones. This is shown with what happened to the Ferdinands at Kursk - all those lost vehicles could have been repaired, but were still technically KO'd. There are several tyes of AFV 'kill': Mobility being just one (Forget the exact terms for the rest, sorry ).
Large-calibred guns such as 122mm or 100mm were not used by Soviet tanks until 1944. Some ML-20 155mm howitzers were deployed by a few artillery regiments in 1943 though. Most of the Ferdidands were destroyed by the Germans themselves after mechanical breakdowns.
Yes, Panther Gs were also poor quality, though I'd say variable. IIRC the Panther in the Kubinka trials was an Ausf A (earlier) - and had better quality armour than the KT.
Yet many tank guns still failed to penetrate the Panther's front glacis plate, nor did it slpit or spall.
The King Tiger's armour was poorer in quality than the Tiger I and early Panther Ausf.A but it still wasn't 'crap' and it's sheer thickness made up for it.
Last edited: