Eagle Squadron kills?

[evangilder]

Not only Alec Baldwins' portrayal of Doolittle, but the way they wrote Doolittle was all wrong too.

 

[Maestro]

I'm saying that because Tom cruise, like Mel Gibson, wanted to alter history and it's rumoured even involve Mustangs in the BoB saving the Brits arses?

Yikes !

I'll be honest with everyone. As a writer (hopefully I'll get published by someone), I've slightly altered the history, in my novel. I invented a pilot, put him in a squadron that never existed (RAF 701 Squadron) and gave him a kill ratio that put him with the WW II Top Aces (120 victories at the beginning of the book (May 1944)). Okay, I'll admit I didn't know (when I wrote the novel) that the top RAF Ace was J.E. Johnson with 38 victories.

I've translated the fourth, fifth and sixth paragraphs of the first chapter, when the main character is brought to Colonel Kraatz, director of the prison.

What you'll read is the farthest I have gone in "altering the history".

" - Captain William McAndrew, welcome in my little prison. It's an honour to meet a foe of your caliber. I studied your profile that my spies supplied me with. That's quite impressive : born in Glasgow, Scotland, in an Anglican family, volunteered in the RAF on June 14th 1940 at the age of 21, earned the Distinguished Flying Cross in August, promoted to the rank of Lieutenant in September, earned the Distinguished Service Order in October, promoted to Captain at El Alamein in 1942 and earned for a second time the Distinguished Flying Cross at Tripoli in 1943. Your capture prooves that our Luftwaffe is way more powerful than your pitiful RAF.

- Oh, really ? So if your Luftwaffe is so powerful, why in the Hell did they failed to beat us during the Battle of Britain even if we were outnumbered ? Your pilots were a bunch of morons ? replied McAndrew.

Kraatz punched the Captain right on the jaw. William raised in a second but was forced back on his seat by his "escort". The Colonel looked at the soldiers and asked them if they had found anything special on the prisonier. One of them gave him a pistol and the pilot's jacket."

I have no problem in altering history a little, to make the story stronger. But what they did in Pearl Harbour was way too much. What Tom Cruise/Mel Gibson want to do is also way to much.

 

[Aggie08]

For those of us not in the know...what are Cruise and Gibson planning?

 

[plan_D]

It's "farthest" not 'farest', Maestro. And obviously I cannot comment for all Luftwaffe and RAF pilots but I'd think they would have had more respect for one another than to talk like that.

 

[Maestro]

It's "farthest" not 'farest', Maestro. And obviously I cannot comment for all Luftwaffe and RAF pilots but I'd think they would have had more respect for one another than to talk like that.

Whoops... Thanks for the spelling correction.

Concerning my novel, I never had a lot of respect for SS guys. From what I heard, you needed to be either a "mad dog" or an asshole to be part of that team. But that's only what I heard...

So, I decided to take the "asshole" version for Kraatz.

McAndrew on the other hand, is what we could call a "talented bastard". The kind of guy who is born to be a fighter pilot, but has a hell of a character. In other words, he is the kind of guy that you wish to have with you, rather than against you.

But you're free to think what you want. You're free to think that my writing skill sucks. That's only the way I personnally imagine the war was.

 

[plan_D]

I'm not saying your writing skill is poor. I'm sure there were situations like that but you must remember that most Allied airmen were taken into the care of Luftwaffe officers who had utmost repsect for their opposition.

 

[evangilder]

While that is true, for the most part, d, they were sent to interrogation prior to the Stalag Luft camps. There are cases where the interrogator was a sadist. BUt from what I have read, it was not the general rule and most of the time they would make them sit in solitary if they didn;t talk until someone ran out of patience. I read about one pilot that was in the interrogation camp for about a month before being release to the Stalag Luft.

 

[plan_D]

And it was getting worse by the end of the war. With the terrorflieger and everything.

 

[evangilder]

Good point. From what I have read though, it was better to be captured by anyone in the German military than a civilian late in the war. Some of the stories I have seen about civilians taking out their frustrations on allied pilots have sent shivers up my spine.

 

[plan_D]

I read Zemke's Stalag and it was about his capture, his time in StalagLuft III and post-war. There were a few times his Luftwaffe escorts saved him from the raging civilians.

 

[evangilder]

Yep. The Luftwaffe run camps were no fun, obviouosly, but they were treated fairly well. I once read a story where a group of SS camp to a Stalag Luft looking for Jewish POWs. Somehow, the Luftwaffe turned them away and refused to relinquish anyone. It was good that they maintained a level of respect and courtesy to their captives, unlike the Japanese.

 

[Maestro]

I didn't know Luftwaffe ran camps. I always thought that they were all run by SS, no matter if it was a pilot POW camp, a standard POW camp or an extermination camp.

I met three WW II veterans in my life. The first one was Charles "Charly" Forbes and two others (I can't remember their names). One of them was captured by the German near Cherbourg and the other one was captured by the Japenese early in the war and was captured again by the German later.

The guy that was captured near Cherbourg had the rank of "Sergent" and told us that the SS threated officers better than under-officers and that under-officers were threated better than privates. He was taken to two different POW camps... I can remember only the last one he was taken to : "Stalag XII-A". He showed us a picture of the gate that was either taken by the German or the Allied troops when they freed them.

The second one was a private. He said that German were better than Japenese. German didn't gave much to eat... but at least they gave them something to eat !

Both agreed on one point though : you learned German/Japenese very fast in POW camps...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

I didn't know Luftwaffe ran camps. I always thought that they were all run by SS

the camp in the great escape is a luftwaffe camp..........

 

[evangilder]

Typically, captured pilots and aircrews went to Stalag Luft camps, run by the Luftwaffe. They had separate areas for the officers and enlisted. I am not completely sure about ground troops, but I think they were run by the Wehrmacht. The SS were involved in some of the interrogations, but not always.

 

[plan_D]

The ground troop PoW camps were run by the Wehrmacht. The SS only ran concentration camps and labour camps.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I too dont want to get started on the movie Pearl Harbor. It was a total piece of shit. Had no historical value and was completely incorrect.

Now my take on the Eagle Squadron. I dont want to take away from them because as someone has already posted they did not have to be there and there contribution was atleast symbolically great. I for one am greatful for there courage and the fact that they volunteered but as even said they were only a very small part. I dont like it when some people on here (not going to name names) try and make them out to be the savior of England.

Even, remember when he tried to tell you that you were wrong for not putting more emphasis on the Eagle Squadron at your BoB display at the museum? Jeesus that pissed me off. The BoB was England's finest moment, dont take it away from them. I think you did a great job Even on your project and good way to handle that guy.

 

[evangilder]

Well, that facts don't lie. If we had put incorrect facts up in the museum, I am sure that someone would call us on it. Believe it or not, we get Brits in to our museum very often. I hear an English accent every time I am there and believe me, if they came from England and are swinging by our museum, they know the facts about the BoB. We get complemented on the BoB display all the time.

I would have been fine with the error if I had not been accused of being a revisionist historian.

 

[schwarzpanzer]

The second one was a private. He said that German were better than Japenese. German didn't gave much to eat... but at least they gave them something to eat !

Yes, my grandads friend used to look at dead squirells like a child looks at chocolate bars.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well, that facts don't lie. If we had put incorrect facts up in the museum, I am sure that someone would call us on it. Believe it or not, we get Brits in to our museum very often. I hear an English accent every time I am there and believe me, if they came from England and are swinging by our museum, they know the facts about the BoB. We get complemented on the BoB display all the time.

I would have been fine with the error if I had not been accused of being a revisionist historian.

And you set up the display right. Good job