Eduard Brassin P-51D Cockpit?

[Bozothenutter]

Hi,
I'm trying to use this cockpit, but the options confuse and befuddle me.

see instructions here: link

It took me a while to figure out the lettering of the 'table of alternate parts' had nothing to do with the lettering of the subassemblies.
But heaping everything under 'P-51D-15+' is a bit simplistic!
There are three main options for a -15 and the options have options
all of this without explaining what the options/parts are!

I'm wanting to build P-51D-15 44-15041 'Petie 3' from the kit options (Dec '44)

I guess what I need is the build sheet as delivered, and add relevant updates to that?
does such a thing exist?

 

[Snautzer01]

There is a big manual section for the p51 on this board and a few builds of said model to be found.

 

[Wurger]

The "Petie 3rd" was the P-51D-15-NA as memo serves.

The Eduard cockpit set is dedicated to the Eduard 1/48 P-51D kit series. As a result, that's the Eduard Mustang kit determinates which variant of the cockpit has to be used basicly.
Regarding the cockpit set .... actually the Eduard instruction is clear. All main parts are printed with their numbers clearly. Also the assembling manual is fine and clear. Just the cockpit kit covers a couple of P-51D variants. IMHO there is no need to explain what the options/parts are for. All needed info is contained in the assembling manual. However, a picture of the aircraft may be very useful because it can help with which the set of parts is needed to be used for the the paricular plane.

 

[Bozothenutter]

The "Petie 3rd" was the P-51D-15-NA as memo serves.

The Eduard cockpit set is dedicated to the Eduard 1/48 P-51D kit series. As a result, that's the Eduard Mustang kit determinates which variant of the cockpit has to be used basicly.
Regarding the cockpit set .... actually the Eduard instruction is clear. All main parts are printed with their numbers clearly. Also the assembling manual is fine and clear. Just the cockpit kit covers a couple of P-51D variants. IMHO there is no need to explain what the options/parts are for. All needed info is contained in the assembling manual. However, a picture of the aircraft may be very useful because it can help with which the set of parts is needed to be used for the the paricular plane.

I rather think you missed the point.
Yes they provide all the parts, yes the group them in 4 sets.
But without knowing what is what, or what was/is inside a D-XX I won't know.
Hence my wondering if there such a thing as a build sheet for this particular aircraft.
With that and the stack of mod orders and the approximate timeline, I would be able to get close at least.

 

[Bozothenutter]

There is a big manual section for the p51 on this board and a few builds of said model to be found.

Thanks,I believe I have all I have from here.
All I need is some sort of index.

 

[Crimea_River]

drgondog or M mjfur might be able to help.

 

[cvairwerks]

Bozo: Typically in the IPB's, there are notations when parts change. If you look at an assembly in the catalog, you may note flagging in some form... numbers, letters, symbols or combinations of them all. These are what is know as effectivity or flag notes, or with some manufacturers, application lists or usage code. These denote that there was a part number change for some reason during production. By reading these notes, you can determine what aircraft in that block had the different parts.

For a good and concise primer on this, download the T-6G IPB here: Harvard Mk 4 Illustrated Parts Manual
Open to the Introduction pages and it gives a complete breakdown by usage code and the corresponding serial number. From there, pop over to any page, find a part with a usage code and refer back to the Intro to read what s/n that part applies to.

 

[Wurger]

I rather think you missed the point.

Perhaps I did.

But without knowing what is what,

Here is what is what

or what was/is inside a D-XX.

Here is what was/is inside

the pic source: the Eduard instruction for the cockpit assembling.

Hence my wondering if there such a thing as a build sheet for this particular aircraft.

OK ... what the Eduard 1/48 kit of the P-51D do you have?

 

[Bozothenutter]

Hi Wurger
the kit I have is 82102
which I want to build as Petie 3rd (kit option)

To go with that I have this additional set.

So according to the blurb this is a P-51D-15 in Dec 1944.
this gives me two headrests, two lower dashes, two sights, three right side panels (radio?) to choose from.

sorry about sounding antsy atm, dealing with sudden loss and a natural short fuse.

 

[Wurger]

I have to admit I have been almost sure you had the kit. The key for the correct set of the cockpit parts is the letter at the left top corner of each of page with the profiles of the P-51D coming with the kit. There are profiles marked with A,B,C,D,E,F..

the profile A is for the P-51D-10 ... and this is the first line of the table of the alternate parts
the profiles B and C are for P-51D-15 ... the second and third lines of the table
the profile D,E,F are for P-51D-20 ... the fourth line of the table.

So .. your profile is the "C" and this results in ...

and this results in the set ...

 

[Bozothenutter]

I have to admit I have been almost sure you had the kit. The key for the correct set of the cockpit parts is the letter at the left top corner of each of page with the profiles of the P-51D coming with the kit. There are profiles marked with A,B,C,D,E,F..

the profile A is for the P-51D-10 ... and this is the first line of the table of the alternate parts
the profiles B and C are for P-51D-15 ... the second and third lines of the table
the profile D,E,F are for P-51D-20 ... the fourth line of the table.

View attachment 672860

So .. your profile is the "C" and this results in ...

View attachment 672861

and this results in the set ...

View attachment 672888

oof...almost made sense...
never thought it would relate to the actual kit, so I checked with their 04176 weekend edition P-51D-20, and it doesn't add up, as that kit has an 'A' option as well. (they recommend the set I have for this)
they don't do a -20 cockpit (a -20 would still be a -15+?), but do have a -5 and F-6 set.
curiouser and curiouser......

 

[Wurger]

As you may notice the line D of the table list is for the D,E,F profiles of the 82102 kit. All of them are the D-20 sub-type of the P-51D. However the list mentions the "D" as the D-15+ what makes sense as the D-20 is more than the D-15 and the "+" just do that. It has to be kept in mind that Eduard offers the D-25 as well.


And some additional explanation to the pics above ...

The table calls for the R89 or R34 bottom panel. The R34 can't be used because ( according to the instruction - diagram B ) it was used for P-51D with bazookas only. Because the R87 part is for the D-10 ( see the list ) , the R89 is for the D-15.
The main trouble may be the gunsight .The table lists either the R90+P6 or R91 what is nicely shown in the diagram "C" of the Eduard instruction. The set allows to make the N-9 gunsight (R38) or the K-14 Mark B (R91) or the K-14 Mark A (R90). There is a picture with W.Kohlhas sitting in the cockpit. The gunsight is covered with a case but the caption says tht it was the K-14 gunsight. The N-9 was used for the "Petie 2nd". Therefore there is the K-14A and K-14B optionally. Which one you will choose it depends on you only. However please pay your attention the the Eduard 82102 kit instruction suggests the A11 gunsight what looks like the N-9 (R38) one for the "A,B,C,E,F" profiles for the D-10,D-15 and D-20. While the gunsight ( A3+A4 ) that looks like the K-14A is suggested for the "D" ( D-20 ). IMHO it is a result of unification of parts for too many P-51D variants in one kit. And later , this resulted in the additional sets for both gunsights and cockpits. The Eduard offers also the D-5 variant.

 

[Bozothenutter]

As you may notice the line D of the table list is for the D,E,F profiles of the 82102 kit. All of them are the D-20 sub-type of the P-51D. However the list mentions the "D" as the D-15+ what makes sense as the D-20 is more than the D-15 and the "+" just do that. It has to be kept in mind that Eduard offers the D-25 as well.


And some additional explanation to the pics above ...

The table calls for the R89 or R34 bottom panel. The R34 can't be used because ( according to the instruction - diagram B ) it was used for P-51D with bazookas only. Because the R87 part is for the D-10 ( see the list ) , the R89 is for the D-15.
The main trouble may be the gunsight .The table lists either the R90+P6 or R91 what is nicely shown in the diagram "C" of the Eduard instruction. The set allows to make the N-9 gunsight (R38) or the K-14 Mark B (R91) or the K-14 Mark A (R90). There is a picture with W.Kohlhas sitting in the cockpit. The gunsight is covered with a case but the caption says tht it was the K-14 gunsight. The N-9 was used for the "Petie 2nd". Therefore there is the K-14A and K-14B optionally. Which one you will choose it depends on you only. However please pay your attention the the Eduard 82102 kit instruction suggests the A11 gunsight what looks like the N-9 (R38) one for the "A,B,C,E,F" profiles for the D-10,D-15 and D-20. While the gunsight ( A3+A4 ) that looks like the K-14A is suggested for the "D" ( D-20 ). IMHO it is a result of unification of parts for too many P-51D variants in one kit. And later , this resulted in the additional sets for both gunsights and cockpits. The Eduard offers also the D-5 variant.

thanks for your patience!

 

[Wurger]

My pleasure .. here is a diagram on how the gunsight should look like ..

the source: K-14 gunsight

 

[Wurger]

And here ..

the source: Missouri Armada P-51D Mustang: documents and partial scratch from the Tamiya 1/48 kit

 

[Wurger]

Oh sorry I have made a mistake and added the pic of the pilot' seat (R24) instead of the armoured headrest (also marked as R24). The table list mentions the R103 and the R24 as the option for the headrest . However the pilot's chair (R24) also might be the equivalent for the kit set of parts for that. But I think they meant the headrest. I have edited the pic and re-attached above though.

Also this needs to be explained a little bit. It can't be said definitly which one should be used. None of known images of the "Petie 3rd" shows the detail. Even the quite close up shot of the cockpit with W.Kohlhas in there didn't.
What is more, the kit 82102 instruction , diagram A, suggest there two parts - PE24 and H50, The PE24 looks like the R23 of the cockpit set while the H50 is similar to the R24. The part H50 is dedicated to the profile "F" that is P-51D-20 of the quite late serial number. But again it can be the way of the unification of parts for many variants.
The Eduard cockpit instruction calls the R103 and R24 for both the "C" and "D,E.F" (D-15/D-20) profiles. The R23 and R24 are listed for the 'A" (D-10) profile.
If you look at the R103 and R23 you can find that these are quite similar. However it seems that the part R24 could be used for late P-51D rather while the R103 for the middle D batches. If we assume the R23 should be for the D-10 and the R24 for the D-20 and late , the R103 has to be for the D-15. Actually the details at the back side of the headrest depended on the radio eqipment. Which one to use ? ... leaving it to your decision.