Darthtabby
Airman
- 59
- May 22, 2021
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The few deep penetration raids that took place by the USAAF bomber forces in 1943 were prohibitively expensive for them, but they were also prohibitively expensive for the LW. The tactic of using single engined fighters in the main to protect the extremities and twin engined fighters to defend the interior didnt work. The losses inflicted on LW twin engine heavy fighters were too high for them to sustain, single engined fighters had to be used so they couldnt be sent to other areas.
I was only posting about the start, in 1943. The twin engined fighters that opposed the first Schwinfurt-Regensburg raid came from all over north Germany, some as far as the border with Denmark, they had the range and the time to do it, some of them were nightfighters. It was the same strategy with the RAF using Blenheim "fighters" to guard the interior of the UK which also didnt work. It wasnt only allied fighters that had short range, the Bf 109 cant range over North Germany for long, you need a lot to form a "picket line" of defence.I hadn't known the Germans had that defensive set-up. It makes sense, given the short range of Allied fighter-escorts of the day; it shields the -110s from dogfighting to launch werfers and cannon attacks.
If I'm reading you right, the bombers were able to somewhat defend themselves against twin-engines? I was under the impression that the 110s would stand off out of range of American .50s.
I'd always thought, from Jablonski et al, that 1- and 2- engine LW fighters operated more closely in concert, the former doing frontal attacks and the latter using rockets to break up the bomber formations. Perhaps I read wrong, or perhaps I read so long ago I'm misremembering.
I was only posting about the start, in 1943. The twin engined fighters that opposed the first Schwinfurt-Regensburg raid came from all over north Germany, some as far as the border with Denmark, they had the range and the time to do it, some of them were nightfighters. It was the same strategy with the RAF using Blenheim "fighters" to guard the interior of the UK which also didnt work. It wasnt only allied fighters that had short range, the Bf 109 cant range over North Germany for long, you need a lot to form a "picket line" of defence.
The losses of US bombers at circa 30% shot down or damaged were completely unsustainable but the losses of twin engined LW interceptors were also unsustainable at about 10% shot down or damaged. If the USAAF had mounted a similar raid the next day the LW would have fewer interceptors facing the same fire, so losses would be the same or higher. Wiki isnt the best source but on the first Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission Fighter strength is quoted as Bf 109s. bf110, and Fw190, on the second Schweinfurt raid Bf110s are not mentioned, they were batted out of the game, but that means many more single engined fighters are needed stationed all over Germany, the LW had to withdraw them from somewhere else.
Well it is a question of perception, they caused heavy losses but suffered losses too. 10% were not available for the next day or for any night time operations, I was discussing the first Schweinfurt Regensburg raid. The first wave encountered opposition on the way to the target then went to N Africa, they encountered very little opposition after bombing the target. It may have been a disaster to the USAAF, it wasnt much better on the German side.My understanding was that the Schweinfurt raid suffered losses to -109s/-190s both inbound and outbound, as the latter refueled/rearmed while the bombers were approaching or over the target.
I hadn't realized the -110s took such a drubbing. I've always thought they were used as stand-off fighters and kept out of range of the bombers' defensive armament. Something to chew on.
Well it is a question of perception, they caused heavy losses but suffered losses too. 10% were not available for the next day or for any night time operations, I was discussing the first Schweinfurt Regensburg raid. The first wave encountered opposition on the way to the target then went to N Africa, they encountered very little opposition after bombing the target. It may have been a disaster to the USAAF, it wasnt much better on the German side.
In bomber loss rate terms 4% was considered the maximum that could be sustainned in long term operations, it isnt much different inn fighter operations. 100 twin engined fighters have a shoal protection by numbers, just as bombers have in high numbers against flack. If the interceptor numbers go down then losses go up, in the extreme case a single, twin engined fighter alone has little chance of doing anything except being shot down attacking a formationn of 300 bombers.
I was under the impression that the 110s would stand off out of range of American .50s.
I am well aware of the importance of fighter escorts for daylight mass bombing raids. Nevertheless I am actually interested in the relative effectiveness and importance of the various weapons, mounts and mounting locations used on WWII bombers models. After all most of them did mount defensive armament of some sort.