There's also the issue of what they do on those sorties. A Marine who went to Korea expecting to fly F4U's or AD's was instead assigned to F9F's and said that might have saved his life. He said the jets usually only had enough fuel to make one pass and dump all their ordnance while the recips made multiple passes and the AA got more accurate on each pass. If the Corsairs were carrying more ordnance than the P51's, they may have been making more passes per sortie. Trying to make meaningful comparisons based on limited data is pretty hopeless. USAF was withdrawing P-51's from combat in Korea as fast as they could replace them with jets and they were all gone prior to the ceasefire while Corsairs fought through the entire police action(not a war).
F4U Corsair vs P-51 Mustang (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Catch22
- Start date
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The term "police action" is much like Russia calling it's invasion a "special operation".
My Stepdad fought in it, as well as several other relatives.
They referred to it as a war.
Thumpalumpacus
Colonel
Soft language has no place here; euphemisms are for folks who can't stomach the hard truth.
Anything that involves artillery, bombers, and naval gun support is a war.
To your step-dad and other relatives, a hearty salute.
The politicians said that it was a police action and we can trust them to always tell the truth.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Thank you for that.
Regarding Police Action, that was a term Truman used because he wanted the public's support, but didn't want to use the term "War" since WWII was only a few years distant and there wasn't a formal declaration.
I believe it was in the 1980's when the Federal Government started using the term "War" when President Reagan was rebuilding public support for the military and for Korean and Vietnam Veterans.
Thumpalumpacus
Colonel
The word "war" is still a touchy thing in American politics because the power to launch war is Constitutionally vested only in the Congress, but those jackaknapes can only be bothered to congregate every so often and perhaps not in time enough to respond to events. But because the President cannot declare war, the lawyers are going to linguify. Hence Truman's terminology.
Thumpalumpacus
Colonel
<dbl post, edited>
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Speaking of which, why is this basket case of a mafia run gas station with nukes still on the Security Council?
Just venting.
Just venting.
History
What Does the UN Security Council Do? | Council on Foreign Relations
The UN Security Council is the premier global body for maintaining international peace and security, but it faces steady calls for reform to better meet twenty-first-century challenges.
www.cfr.org
I assume you would be unhappy if the USA lost its Permanent Member status. And there lies the problem of reforming that body, if indeed it requires reform.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I thought of that long ago. I still felt like venting!History
What Does the UN Security Council Do? | Council on Foreign Relations
The UN Security Council is the premier global body for maintaining international peace and security, but it faces steady calls for reform to better meet twenty-first-century challenges.
I assume you would be unhappy if the USA lost its Permanent Member status. And there lies the problem of reforming that body, if indeed it requires reform.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Some fair assumptions, I don't know about ordinance load out between the Mustang and Corsair, however the USAF shipped 145 Mustangs over on U.S.S. Boxer as quick as they could to strengthen FEAF's assets in theater. That the Corsair was in use so long doesn't speak to me of Marine or Navy planning, USAF replaced Mustangs because of the MiG15 (Jet) threat, even the old P-80 stood a better chance than any piston engine warrior and the F-84 was being sent over ASAP.
As for the Corsair, I guess run what ya brung, if that's what's available, that's what you go to war with. Personally, for a piston engine attack aircraft the Skyraider has it all over the Corsair if you're flying in the Navy or Marines.
And my apologies re: loss numbers, I have no excuse as I was looking at the tome on my shelf and totally spaced on even getting it off the shelf.
A few things to bear in mind.
Carrier type. The USN deployed a number of Essex class CV, a single CVL (Bataan) and a number of the large Commencement Bay class CVE (Badoeng Strait, Sicily, Rendova, Bairoko, Point Cruz). It was single USMC squadrons that flew from the latter two types for which the main equipment was the Corsair. They were probably too small for jet operations and for the AD Skyraider.
As for the Essex class the air group was built around a core of 4 fighter squadrons and an AD squadron, plus additional detachments of specialist aircraft - photo and night fighter Corsairs, AEW & electronic warfare flying AD and a few rescue helicopters.
Right from the start most of the air groups on the Essex class had two squadrons of F9F Panther jets and two squadrons of Corsairs. An exception was CVG-2 which flew from the Boxer between Aug & Nov 1950 with 4 Corsair squadrons then moved to Valley Forge & then Philippine Sea through to July 1951 with 3 Corsair squadrons. By spring 1952 when it was back aboard Boxer it had one with F9F and two with Corsairs.
You can follow the types of aircraft deployed in each air group on each carrier here.
The first Essex to operate off Korea was CV-45 Valley Forge.
Barrett
Staff Sergeant
I do not recall if I replied on this thread
but
There was a Real World test, held in Central America in 1969.
Honduras and El Salvador both flew different flavors of Corsairs
and El Sal also flew Mustangs.
The leading (only) scorer was Capt. Fernando Soto who gunned three El Sal fighters in his F4U-5.
but
There was a Real World test, held in Central America in 1969.
Honduras and El Salvador both flew different flavors of Corsairs
and El Sal also flew Mustangs.
The leading (only) scorer was Capt. Fernando Soto who gunned three El Sal fighters in his F4U-5.
that was F4U-5 vs P-51D though, a better comparison would be P-51H
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Also who's flying them, we all know the pilot can make all the difference in the world.
special ed
1st Lieutenant
- 7,136
- May 13, 2018
Allegedly, there were two P-51D casualties (non-combat) when their pilots landed on the same runway from opposite ends.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Yikes!
MIflyer
Major
I recall reading that an F4U attacked a P-51 and scored some hits. Then the F4U began to stream smoke for some reason and both pilots called it a day. The P-51 pilot quit and went back to the US after that escapade.
That sounds a bit like the British naming their post-WW2 military actions using anything but the term "war". You have the Suez Crisis, the Confrontation or Konfrontasi, the Mau Mau Uprising, the Malayan Emergency, the Northern Irish Troubles, the Falklands Conflict...
