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I used to believe that the F6F and F4U could have performed LRE missions in Europe as well as the US Army types until I was persuaded by the very knowledgeable folks here on this forum.I always considered the F4U as having excellent range - I'm sure it could have reached Berlin and back again the same way most other single-engine fighter planes were able to do it, by carrying drop tanks?
Good range - yes, with external tanks and un-interrupted by combat. Only the F4U-1A with auxillary internal wing fuel giving it 361gal fuel total. but the wing fuel tanks were not self sealing and not permissable for ETO combat. Specifically, w/o wing tanks the F4U-1 series had 237 gal internal fuel. Compare to P-47C/D which had 305 gal until spring/summer 1944 when the D-25 emerged with 370 gal - and capable of reaching Berlin/Leipzig/Munich.I always considered the F4U as having excellent range - I'm sure it could have reached Berlin and back again the same way most other single-engine fighter planes were able to do it, by carrying drop tanks?
You need to understand that Range = maximum unmolested straight line capability at optimal cruise altitude and TAS. Combat Radius = 'molested tranquility' in which external stores are dropped, combat at Military and/or Combat Power is engaged, and the distance to return home is not exceeded by the remaining capacity of your (wing fuselge) internal tanks.Range increases to 1500 nautical miles max with just one 150 external fuel tank. They could carry two of this.
Visualize between P-47C and late model bubble canopy P-47D-25, then P-38J-15, then P-51B/C/D. Analogy - Brunswick/Stuttgart/ Schweinfurt but not Berlin, Leipzig, Brux, Ruhland, Munich.Well, that seems to be me told!!
So I take it that the F4U may indeed have the range to cover much of Germany in some kinds of escort missions, but it couldn't carry out such missions at the right altitude or speed to be anyway useful to the USAAF/8th AF, ie. escort for B-17 and B-24 bomber missionsß
They were, returned to the USA in UK "on paper" The USA just left them where they were. I would add that it could be questioned who was lending and leasing what and to whom. Mustangs were flown by RAF pilots from RAF airfields escorting USA bombers. The British ordered it, gave it an engine design and a gunsight design. If they wanted the scrap sent back thats one thing if they wanted flyable planes sent back by the thousand while much of the world was starving that is another, the ships men and fuel involved would be enormous and they would be scrapped in the USA anyway.IIRC, one condition of Lend-Lease is that everything sent had to be returned (it was lent, after all) or destroyed.
Great post, just one point. The IAS or TAS is the speed of the fighter cruising at a speed ready for combat, the ground speed is that of the bomber formation while it is on station. So the consumption is that at 220mph 20K ft but the ground speed may be anything from 120 to 180 MPHEscort missions took off and spent some 20 - 30 minutes joining up, cruise-climbed to something like 20,000+ feet. And escorted to Berlin and back at something like 220 mph IAS, which turns into 308 mph TAS at 20,000 feet.
Reinforcing your thought...My question is, if the P-51 was so over-rated, what is your suggestion for an alternative U.S.A.A.F. escort fighter? It has to be available when the P-51 was actually available in the war, in sufficient numbers to be useful, and it has to be an aircraft the U.S.A.A.F. would take. That rules out foreign aircraft, which were not really acceptable to the U.S.A.A.F. during WWII.
But they and the USAAF should have pressed them into combat over germanyThe FAA did have Corsairs in the European theater, just not active in battles over the continent.
The US had the P-47 and the RAF had the Typhoon - both of which were beasts.But they and the USAAF should have pressed them into combat over germany
I have to say this the P-47 was heavy the corsair was a little and i mean a little lighter which means when not doing ground attacks would have made it a better dogfighterThe US had the P-47 and the RAF had the Typhoon - both of which were beasts.
No need for the Corsair.
Lighter doesn't mean better, in terms of dog-fighing.I have to say this the P-47 was heavy the corsair was a little and i mean a little lighter which means when not doing ground attacks would have made it a better dogfighter
Well i might be wrong and I'm sorry if I am but I would still have took the corsair im sorry to have wasted everyone timeLighter doesn't mean better, in terms of dog-fighing.
The P-47 had the ability to turn and fight with the Bf109 at high altitudes, something the F4U would be hard pressed to do.
There was no piston powered aircraft in the Luftwaffe's inventory that could out dive the P-47 and the P-47 could absorb considerable damage and still stay in the fight.
You're not wasting anyone's time - the F4U is an awesome machine, there's no doubting that at all.Well i might be wrong and I'm sorry if I am but I would still have took the corsair im sorry to have wasted everyone time
I just think that corsair would have made a good choice because you get speed firepower and turning all in package plus like like you said good for gournd attack and CAS workYou're not wasting anyone's time - the F4U is an awesome machine, there's no doubting that at all.
And if it's any consolation, they used the F4U in Korea, not the P-47, so there's that.
The Corsair would have been an asset in ground attack during D-Day, especially since it was used with great succeed to scour the earth in the Pacific during the island invasion operations.
I agree but could it go toe to toe with german fighters I'd say yes its fast it can turn decently but the 50 cals hurt us