Fairey Albacore. Was so awful?

[pararaftanr2]

Perhaps the Dauntless could be a good answer to keep the DB capability and would be small enough to be fitted in the smaller british carriers.

EDIT: It is kinda weird that the british didn't field the Dauntless given that they used many others USA carrier planes.

The SBD did not have folding wings, therefore was not flown from USN CVEs either. Once Avengers became available to the RN, with their folding wings, glide bombing and torpedo carrying capacity and the ability to operate off the short decked CVEs, the British torpedo types were relegated to secondary roles.

 

[RCAFson]

The SBD did not have folding wings, therefore was not flown from USN CVEs either. Once Avengers became available to the RN, with their folding wings, glide bombing and torpedo carrying capacity and the ability to operate off the short decked CVEs, the British torpedo types were relegated to secondary roles.

Swordfish continued in service on CVEs until VE day. TBFs could only operate from CVEs that had a catapult, whereas the Swordfish could typically TO unassisted, even from a CVE and could operate in weather that would often ground the TBF.

 

[fastmongrel]

I thought Stringbags were only operating from Merchant Aircraft Carriers by 1945.

 

[RCAFson]

I thought Stringbags were only operating from Merchant Aircraft Carriers by 1945.

The Nairana class CVEs were operating Swordfish until VE day.

 

[GreenKnight121]

The Nairana-class escort carrier (/naɪˈrɑːnə/) was a British-built class of three escort carriers.

Following the successful conversion and operation of HMS Activity, the Admiralty decided to take over three more merchant ships while they were still under construction and convert them into escort carriers. The three ships chosen were being built at three different shipyards around the United Kingdom, Harland and Wolff in Northern Ireland, Swan Hunter in England and John Brown & Company in Scotland. The prototype was built by John Brown who supplied the other two companies with copies of the plans. The three ships were supposed to be identical but in reality they were all slightly different.

None of the British-built escort carriers had catapults.

 

[nuuumannn]

The prototype was built by John Brown who supplied the other two companies with copies of the plans. The three ships were supposed to be identical but in reality they were all slightly different.

Nairana's bell at the FAA Museum at Yeovilton.

HMS Nairana Bell

In the last year of the war, Nairana sailed as escort to Arctic convoys and Swordfish, Sea Hurricanes, Martlets and Fulmar night fighters equipped with AI radar equipped her decks.

the British torpedo types were relegated to secondary roles.

It's worth noting that following the introduction of the Albacore and Barracuda, the Swordfish served primarily as an anti-submarine aircraft from these escort carriers until the end of the war, hardly a secondary role.

 

[NVSMITH]

The SBD did not have folding wings, therefore was not flown from USN CVEs either. Once Avengers became available to the RN, with their folding wings, glide bombing and torpedo carrying capacity and the ability to operate off the short decked CVEs, the British torpedo types were relegated to secondary roles.

-I could be wrong but seem to recall that SBDs were carried aboard the Sangamon Class CVEs.

 

[Escuadrilla Azul]

In the last year of the war, Nairana sailed as escort to Arctic convoys and Swordfish, Sea Hurricanes, Martlets and Fulmar night fighters equipped with AI radar equipped her decks.

4 different types of aircraft in a single CVE at the same time? 2 of them for the same role? Looks like a manteinance nightmare to me. Are you sure?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Once Avengers became available to the RN, with their folding wings, glide bombing and torpedo carrying capacity and the ability to operate off the short decked CVEs, the British torpedo types were relegated to secondary roles.

Start at 6:16 and watch first the Seafire land and fold, and then the Tarpon (Avenger). It's impressive to watch the latter land, fold its own wings and roll forward. Meanwhile the Seafire needs a half dozen men to get put away.

 

[RCAFson]

-I could be wrong but seem to recall that SBDs were carried aboard the Sangamon Class CVEs.

The SBD-3 was not very effective on the CVEs, having poor STOL characteristics and consequently, a very limited bomb load, even with catapult launches. On USS Santee (Sangamon class) during TORCH typical bomb load was only one 325lb DC while maximum bomb load was one 325lb DC and two 100lb bombs. Her TBFs typically launched with 2 x 325lb DCs with a maximum of 4 x 325lb DCs.

 

[nuuumannn]

different types of aircraft in a single CVE at the same time? 2 of them for the same role?

No, not all at the same time. The Hurricanes and Swordfish were nominal staples aboard the Nairana on commission, but toward the very end of the war, Martlets/Wildcats were joined by the AI fitted Fulmars. There were only one or two Fulmars at a time and I don't think they ever shot anything down using their AI, although there were occasions when they were sent after raiders in the dark. In 1944, Nairana and the escort carrier Vindex played Hunter-Killer pair on convoy ops, loaded with Martlets and Swordfish. In February 1945, Nairana sailed from Scotland as part of a convoy to Murmansk with Martlets/Wildcats (some time later in the war the RN relented and reverted to the Martlet's maiden name) and Fulmars aboard. On a few occasions throughout the voyage, the convoy was attacked by Ju 88s from II/KG 26 at Bardufoss, which were ordered by Goering personally to target the escort carriers, but the unit failed to torpedo them and a few Ju 88s were shot down, with the loss of a Martlet and a few freighters to the attackers. Because of the failure to sink the carrier escort, largely due to bad weather and the stiff AA fire and fighter intervention, Goering sent the unit an angry message admonishing the crews and their meagre efforts!

 

[pararaftanr2]

Nairana's bell at the FAA Museum at Yeovilton.

View attachment 595982HMS Nairana Bell

In the last year of the war, Nairana sailed as escort to Arctic convoys and Swordfish, Sea Hurricanes, Martlets and Fulmar night fighters equipped with AI radar equipped her decks.



It's worth noting that following the introduction of the Albacore and Barracuda, the Swordfish served primarily as an anti-submarine aircraft from these escort carriers until the end of the war, hardly a secondary role.

There were approximately 61 CVEs in service with the RN during WW2. The use of Swordfish on three of these as anti-submarine aircraft until VE Day does not seem like a primary role at that stage of the war to me. This does not detract from their accomplishments earlier in the war, when Avengers were not even in production yet, which were substantial and quite amazing.

 

[pararaftanr2]

-I could be wrong but seem to recall that SBDs were carried aboard the Sangamon Class CVEs.

You are correct, but there were only four ships in that class. They were the largest CVEs built and the only ones to carry dive bombers. I should have included the word "most" in my previous post. My apology for the confusion.

 

[RCAFson]

There were approximately 61 CVEs in service with the RN during WW2. The use of Swordfish on three of these as anti-submarine aircraft until VE Day does not seem like a primary role at that stage of the war to me. This does not detract from their accomplishments earlier in the war, when Avengers were not even in production yet, which were substantial and quite amazing.

Many of the 58, non Nairana class CVE,s were MAC ships and also operated Swordfish until VE day. ASW was a dangerous, vital, and very front line service.

 

[nuuumannn]

The use of Swordfish on three of these as anti-submarine aircraft until VE Day does not seem like a primary role at that stage of the war to me.

Just because you say it isn't doesn't mean it wasn't.

Many of the 58, non Nairana class CVE,s were MAC ships and also operated Swordfish until VE day. ASW was a dangerous, vital, and very front line service.

Wot he sez.

 

[NVSMITH]

You are correct, but there were only four ships in that class. They were the largest CVEs built and the only ones to carry dive bombers. I should have included the word "most" in my previous post. My apology for the confusion.

-Weren't the Commencement Bay class about the same size? I realize that few of that class entered service before the end of the war but were their air groups going to contain SBDs or had the SBDs been withdrawn from service by that time?
-Unfortunately there just doesn't seem to be a lot available on CVEs. Most American photos show Wildcats and Avengers; I don't think I've ever seen a photo of an SBD on one of the Sangamon class ships.
-Did any of the CVEs carry F6F Hellcats? If so, and if they could launch carrying a decent bomb/rocket load, there probably wouldn't be a need for SBDs.
-Corsair on a CVE???

 

[Admiral Beez]

Did any of the CVEs carry F6F Hellcats? If so, and if they could launch carrying a decent bomb/rocket load, there probably wouldn't be a need for SBDs. -Corsair on a CVE???

I know British CVEs carried Hellcats. Here's HMS Pursuer (D73) retrieving her Hellcats, recently transferred from another CVE, HMS Attacker (D02). No idea on bombs or rockets though.

898 Naval Air Squadron

As for CVE and Corsairs 1/32 Vought F4U-4 Corsair, VMF-323 "Death Rattlers" - Carrier Aircraft GB

 

[fastmongrel]

That Hellcat looks like it has all the arrestor wires wrapped round it's undercarriage. I wonder what happened there possibly it landed short of the wires

 

[Admiral Beez]

That Hellcat looks like it has all the arrestor wires wrapped round it's undercarriage. I wonder what happened there possibly it landed short of the wires

It's missed the wire and is crashing into the barrier. The above link gives some info. 898 Naval Air Squadron

I wonder if the Hellcat was just too much for the little CVEs. The Avenger/Tarpon is bigger, but has a slower landing speed.

"H.M.S. PURSUER
The squadron disembarked to RNAS Trincomalee on August 1st when PURSUER joined the 21st Aircraft Carrier Squadron. The ship was allocated to participate in the upcoming Operation ZIPPER, the allied invasion of Malaya, and the squadron re-embarked on the 6th to conduct flying training and to exercise with the ship. Petty Officer Pilot AH Kay was killed on August 9th, when his arrestor hook bounced off the rounddown and the aircraft fell over the side into the sea. Sub Lt G. K. Taylor RNZNVR in JX709 also had a bouncing arrestor hook on the 16th; it missed No.4 wire but then engaged No.9 wire, and continued on into the barrier where its engine was stopped."

 

[Admiral Beez]

Many of the 58, non Nairana class CVE,s were MAC ships and also operated Swordfish until VE day. ASW was a dangerous, vital, and very front line service.

I'd guess that the Swordfish killed more submarines than any other aircraft. With the ability to operate in all weathers, to fly slowly to observe targets, and with a good bomb load it's ideal for the job.

Nearly half of all U-Boat losses are attributed to aircraft, U-boat Losses by cause - Fates - German U-boats of WWII - Kriegsmarine - uboat.net