Favorite plane never built (or perhaps as a prototype).

[spicmart]

Wrt OP,
Fw 190D/Ta 152 with Jumo 213EB/J.
J-powered variants would have probably hit 500 mph+.

 

[GrauGeist]

Wrt OP,
Fw 190D/Ta 152 with Jumo 213EB/J.
J-powered variants would have probably hit 500 mph+.

Doubtful - even the Do335A-0 maxed out at 475mph at 21,000 feet.

 

[dedalos]

Doubtful - even the Do335A-0 maxed out at 475mph at 21,000 feet.

Well, the do335a-0 had much more less powerful engines than the 213EB/,J and even more importantly single stage supercharger instead of two stage supercharger of the EB/J.
But I agree that 500mph on a piston engine fighter in operational configuration is questionable.
Did any actually hit 500mph even on trials? With full ammo, fuel etc.

 

[spicmart]

Doubtful - even the Do335A-0 maxed out at 475mph at 21,000 feet.

Fw 190D with Jumo 213EB would get to 770 km/h according to a graph.

 

[tomo pauk]

Let's take as example the Firefly. It had a griffon engine like the late spitfires.
The canopy of the navigators cockpit was enclosed in the lines of the airframe
However , the reality was that the firefly,on the same engine, was much slower and let's agile than the spitfire. Do the second crewman handicapped performance.

The second crewman does not handicap speed. Same as that the fuselage tank on the Merlin Mustang was not a handicap to the speed vs. the earliest P-51Bs without the fuselage tank; weight of the full fuselage tank being closer to 250 kg than to 200 kg - ie. no lighter than two crewmen will weight.

Reality was that Firefly was with a much bigger and draggier wing, with a big fuselage, and with a tall and steep windscreen. All of the things pushing up the drag by a substantial amount Firelfly was with the wing bigger than what the P-47, P-38 or Fw 187 had, and was trying to compete with the F6F in the task of how much a drag an 1-engined fighter can had. With it's bigger drag and weight (just the internal fuel tankage was double of what the Griffon Spitfires had), there is no wonder that the agility and RoCalso suffered by a good deal.

The falke should be a hot rod in order to
a) intercept the PR enemy planes
b) protect the u boats in the Biscay bay
c) carry PR missions
4)perform hit and run attacks on enemy escort fighters. Not in order to shoot them down but to force them to jetison the drop tanks early, and generally force them to loose their rendezvous with the bomber formations.

A) Will do, since speed is up anyway (assuming DB engines)
B) Backseater will come in handy to cover navigational and radioman tasks.
C) The PR Mosquitoes were 2-seaters. The PR 187 can do with guns deleted so the cameras can fit.
4) Attempting to force the escort fighters to jettison the drop tanks is playing the Allied game - if that is being done close to the North Sea, that means the P-47s and Spitfires can also play, and if it being done deep in Germany, the drop tanks have already did their task so it is the time to eject them anyway.

 

[spicmart]

Martin-Baker MB-5. If only....

The Supermarine Spitfire and Spiteful were powered by the latest Griffons, too.
From an ACM POV I can't see any advantage for the MB-5 as it was heavier thus had worse power-to-weight ratio.

 

[TM06]

But I agree that 500mph on a piston engine fighter in operational configuration is questionable.
Did any actually hit 500mph even on trials? With full ammo, fuel etc.

The XP-47J is the first to come to mind, apparently hitting 505 mph at 10,500 metres in early August 1944. It was functionally a lighter and more refined P-47.

 

[bentwings]

It won the ugly contest, hands down, but I'm sure it had a nice personality.

Ok how how about I update our p 51 H Rc giant scale Rc model. I've received some help on details here for which I've very thankful. There is very little information available on this " super prop plane" so far I've spent weeks searching ever aero library I can find and enter . I think I everybhard cover book on the plane. It actually did reach the front lines but never fired a shot before the wars ended . Inronically most went to nat guard units right after the war a very good friend from HS sent me pictures of the single one that they had . I looked up the tail numbers and sure enough it was sent to WoldChamberland nNat Guard now known a s Mpls air port from there I've lost it . That's the short story I have more books to search yet many went tonAir race planes but I'm not into those there are various numbers created but about 555 appears often . It was the fastest prop plane at the time noted at 487mph at 20k feet it never reached 500 on level flight it did have one of the highest Mach number rating of prop planes . There have been none built as giant scale models. Ours is being prepared in the same light as build it as light and strong as possible with a big motor . We have a belt driver electric system that is far lighter than any 5.8 cu in gas engine . It can make up to 25 shaft hp any turn the scale 25" 4 blade aero products paddle prop fast enough we have to limit tip i rpm to less than super sonic . The plane will feature the major improvements over the model. Smaller chin scoop vertical belly scoop front opening removeD wing " kink reshaped canopy and location repositioned wing. Smaller lighter wheels lighter retractable landing gear up dated tail wheel retract more stream lined exhaust shrouds pilot position moved forward longer fuselage larger vertical stabilize larger rudder . Over all much lighter weight using carbon fiber rather than traditional light plywood and heavy aircraft ply wood .
Over all it's a huge project. By far my most ambitious Rc model project it will be 100 % molded layup of several pieces it will have the scal panel lines molded in that are visible and scale removable panels such as cowl an gun bays. The full size was pretty clean as it was . There are only 5 planes still in existence one is a half day drive that we plan on visiting for a walk around photo shoot. We also have a f -4- U -5 giant scale Rc model Corsair also one of the real super props that saw service . It's still in the building process . A replacement for the one I flew for 13 years nearly every flyable week end log book was nearly 2" thick. Anyway we are very active in large Rc warbird model

 

[Shortround6]

The second crewman does not handicap speed. Same as that the fuselage tank on the Merlin Mustang was not a handicap to the speed vs. the earliest P-51Bs without the fuselage tank; weight of the full fuselage tank being closer to 250 kg than to 200 kg - ie. no lighter than two crewmen will weight.

To further that. Just look at the 2 seat trainers built on single seat fighter airframes, like the Yaks or P-40s or 1940s/50s Fiat G-59s or Hawker Sea Fury trainers

Or look at a few of the 2 seat nighters, like the F7F Tigercat or Sea Hornet.

I would also note that the 2nd cockpit on the early (actually built) Fw 187s had some rather interesting problems for actual combat use. Was there was a rear gun? Actually aiming and hitting anything required cooperation by the intended target if one was fitted. Most photos show the two men facing forward. Room to turn around in the Fw 187? Drawing for the rear gun (and most photo/s do NOT show a rear gun or even a slot in the canopy) show a minimum depression angle of 15 degrees above horizontal to clear the fuselage to the rear of the canopy.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Actually aiming and hitting anything required cooperation by the intended target if one was fitted.

To be fair, that describes almost all defensive gun positions on bombers of the era.

 

[GrauGeist]

The RLM, in it's infinite wisdom, wanted a type to do a variety of functions beyond what it was designed for.
The Fw187 was originally conceived as a fighter foremost.
It should have been allowed to follow those lines with no interference.

 

[spicmart]

Well, the do335a-0 had much more less powerful engines than the 213EB/,J and even more importantly single stage supercharger instead of two stage supercharger of the EB/J.
But I agree that 500mph on a piston engine fighter in operational configuration is questionable.
Did any actually hit 500mph even on trials? With full ammo, fuel etc.

A laminar flow profile would be of course mandatory.

 

[MIflyer]

Yep, 2nd cockpit does not do anything.

 

[tomo pauk]

Yep, 2nd cockpit does not do anything.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Unfortunately, Bell's ways of skinning a cat back in ww2 were ... awkward, to say at least.

 

[special ed]

Well, you see, the trainer version had all that room up front without the nose armor, the guns, and the cockpit heater that it was a natural place to put another pilot.

 

[MIflyer]

Well, you see, the trainer version had all that room up front without the nose armor, the guns, and the cockpit heater that it was a natural place to put another pilot.

Yeah, more conventional aircraft do not do weird stuff like that.

 

[special ed]

Don't forget another Bell product, The P-59A. When the USAAF wanted a second crewman, the Bell folks did a rerun and took out the guns (and who knows what else) and stuck him in front of the pilot as in the TP-39.

 

[MIflyer]

Don't forget another Bell product, The P-59A. When the USAAF wanted a second crewman, the Bell folks did a rerun and took out the guns (and who knows what else) and stuck him in front of the pilot as in the TP-39.

Yes, OPEN COCKPIT!