Feasibility of a large scale 10.2k mile transit flight UK to Singapore

[Admiral Beez]

Earlier this year I posted a possible route to fly twin-engined RAF bombers from Britain to Singapore in early to mid 1941, Why so few single engine Hercules applications?.

Here's the route I chose using RAF airfields then in use, A map from Great Circle Mapper. I used the Bristol Blenheim's 1,460 mile range, but we should consider Bostons, Blenheims, Marylands, Hudsons, Wellingtons, etc.

1,000 miles Cornwall ,UK around neutral Spain to Gibraltar
1,870 miles to Mallam Aminu Kano in Nigeria (was used interwar for passenger flights and as a ferry base during WW2)
1,140 miles to Sudan
1,325 miles to RAF Aden
975 miles to RAF Oman
1,100 miles to RAF Bombay
920 miles to Trincomalee, Ceylon
1,335 miles to RAF Butterworth, Malaya
376 miles to RAF Seletar, Singapore

Assuming 100 to 130 bombers were to be flown what would it take to pull this 10,200 mile transit flight off? Fuel and spares will need to be prepared for in advance enroute. What of the torpedoes and bombs for these aircraft, do they bring them along and thus impact range, or are there sufficient stores in Malaya? We must put aside that if 100-130 bombers are available that they may be of better use in North Africa or elsewhere. RAF Malaya Command has asked for aircraft, and this is our attempt to get them. Was such as long ferry flight of a fleet of twin engined aircraft ever attempted?

I'm posting this here rather than in What'If as I'm not asking what if we did this, but instead what would actually be necessary when considering such a mission. But Mods go ahead and move to What'If as you decide.

 

[yulzari]

FWIW as a baby I flew from the UK to Singapore in the mid 1950s and we used a Handley Page Hermes with four Bristol Hercules engines to drag us along. It took four days I am told and some of the stops were Brindisi and Karachi plus some more.

 

[Admiral Beez]

FWIW as a baby I flew from the UK to Singapore in the mid 1950s and we used a Handley Page Hermes with four Bristol Hercules engines to drag us along. It took four days I am told and some of the stops were Brindisi and Karachi plus some more.

Nice. I love history like that. The Bristol Blenheim has a cruise speed of 198 mph. Assuming friendly wind direction this will be about 52-54 flight hours.

Hmm.... I realize now that I messed up on the 2nd leg of the route. Gibraltar to Nigeria is 1,870 miles, which is more than 400 miles too far for the Blenheim. We can likely add some fuel drums, but only if they can be pumped internally... and then that means we can't bring any ordinance along. I don't think there are any other British airfields.... presuming we want to avoid the fighting in North Africa and the MTO.

Any suggestions on route? Or we forget the Blenheim and send something else with longer range.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I can't speak to routing except to suggest those planes are probably going to be pretty tired on arrival, and in need of refurbishment.

As for arming them, I'd send both weapons and ammo/ordnance by sea in order to maximize range for routing purposes. You're going to need reloads anyway, so scrape together a convoy and send it in ahead or timed with the arrival of the planes.

 

[BiffF15]

You could load C-47s with mechanics, tools, and spare parts. They go along with the leading flight, leaving them at bases along the way. They then follow the last flight into the destination.

Food for thought.

Biff

 

[gumbyk]

You'd have to send ordinance by sea prior.
Otherwise you're flying them 10,200 miles each way to drop one load of bombs?

 

[MikeMeech]

Earlier this year I posted a possible route to fly twin-engined RAF bombers from Britain to Singapore in early to mid 1941, Why so few single engine Hercules applications?.

Here's the route I chose using RAF airfields then in use, A map from Great Circle Mapper. I used the Bristol Blenheim's 1,460 mile range, but we should consider Bostons, Blenheims, Marylands, Hudsons, Wellingtons, etc.

1,000 miles Cornwall ,UK around neutral Spain to Gibraltar
1,870 miles to Mallam Aminu Kano in Nigeria (was used interwar for passenger flights and as a ferry base during WW2)
1,140 miles to Sudan
1,325 miles to RAF Aden
975 miles to RAF Oman
1,100 miles to RAF Bombay
920 miles to Trincomalee, Ceylon
1,335 miles to RAF Butterworth, Malaya
376 miles to RAF Seletar, Singapore

Assuming 100 to 130 bombers were to be flown what would it take to pull this 10,200 mile transit flight off? Fuel and spares will need to be prepared for in advance enroute. What of the torpedoes and bombs for these aircraft, do they bring them along and thus impact range, or are there sufficient stores in Malaya? We must put aside that if 100-130 bombers are available that they may be of better use in North Africa or elsewhere. RAF Malaya Command has asked for aircraft, and this is our attempt to get them. Was such as long ferry flight of a fleet of twin engined aircraft ever attempted?

I'm posting this here rather than in What'If as I'm not asking what if we did this, but instead what would actually be necessary when considering such a mission. But Mods go ahead and move to What'If as you decide.

Hi
We can look at the routes used during the war for both passenger and aircraft re-supply, and also the pre-war Imperial Airways routes to the Far-East.
From 'Forged in War, A History of Royal Air Force Transport Command 1943-1967' by Humphrey Wynn, which has the following maps:

Also a map from 'Imperial Airways, The Birth of the British Airline Industry 1914-1940' by Robert Bluffield.

From Gibraltar some aircraft did fly to North Africa via Malta and then to the FE, depending on the situation. Fighters were shipped to West Africa, put back together, then flew across Africa for DAF and to the FE. Longer range aircraft like B-24s could fly from US factories via the air routes marked on the relevant map.

Mike

 

[Admiral Beez]

I can't speak to routing except to suggest those planes are probably going to be pretty tired on arrival, and in need of refurbishment.

You think so? 50-60 flight hours isn't a huge period of use. TBO was about 3,000 hours for Bristol radials, IIRC.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

You think so? 50-60 flight hours isn't a huge period of use. TBO was about 3,000 hours for Bristol radials, IIRC.

But you're exposing the engines, and planes, to a variety of salt-water, desert, and dusty regions in rapid sequence, and then wanting them to do combat. It's not about the transit time, it's about the transit conditions.

 

[gumbyk]

But you're exposing the engines, and planes, to a variety of salt-water, desert, and dusty regions in rapid sequence, and then wanting them to do combat. It's not about the transit time, it's about the transit conditions.

They'd need some work, sure, but not a refurbishment. Ferry time was probably the least stressful type of operation on an engine - continuous power settings and long legs.
The Mossie we had here was put into storage immediately upon receiving it from ferry flights - it had a total of 85 hours. the inside of the engines was just broken in. So unless the engines were tired to begin with (and you wouldn't be using tired engines for this type of operation), I'd think they'd just need their routine 50 hour inspections carried out.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

They'd need some work, sure, but not a refurbishment. Ferry time was probably the least stressful type of operation on an engine - continuous power settings and long legs.
The Mossie we had here was put into storage immediately upon receiving it from ferry flights - it had a total of 85 hours. the inside of the engines was just broken in. So unless the engines were tired to begin with (and you wouldn't be using tired engines for this type of operation), I'd think they'd just need their routine 50 hour inspections carried out.

Even with salt air over the Atlantic or Indian oceans, hot high-altitude airfield ops in Africa, and so on?

 

[ARTESH]

Earlier this year I posted a possible route to fly twin-engined RAF bombers from Britain to Singapore in early to mid 1941, Why so few single engine Hercules applications?.

Here's the route I chose using RAF airfields then in use, A map from Great Circle Mapper. I used the Bristol Blenheim's 1,460 mile range, but we should consider Bostons, Blenheims, Marylands, Hudsons, Wellingtons, etc.

1,000 miles Cornwall ,UK around neutral Spain to Gibraltar
1,870 miles to Mallam Aminu Kano in Nigeria (was used interwar for passenger flights and as a ferry base during WW2)
1,140 miles to Sudan
1,325 miles to RAF Aden
975 miles to RAF Oman
1,100 miles to RAF Bombay
920 miles to Trincomalee, Ceylon
1,335 miles to RAF Butterworth, Malaya
376 miles to RAF Seletar, Singapore

I'm not a technician in any fields related to Aviation, but somehow, IMO, by 1941, A long and big area from Egypt to India was under British and other Allied powers control, why not any stops in any of these countries???

I think using any of these places, would be much more safe and also shorter journey.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm not a technician in any fields related to Aviation, but somehow, IMO, by 1941, A long and big area from Egypt to India was under British and other Allied powers control, why not any stops in any of these countries???

I think using any of these places, would be much more safe and also shorter journey.

This area was in heavy combat with the Italians and DAK. There's a good chance the bombers could be damaged, would stress the already stretched supplies of RAF North Africa, or attempt to be seized by the local RAF.

Better to send the bombers to the south. At least that's what I was thinking when I planned the route.

 

[gumbyk]

Even with salt air over the Atlantic or Indian oceans, hot high-altitude airfield ops in Africa, and so on?

There's not much salt at 20,000 ft. Engine oil absorbs salt out of the air, and as long as its changed at the normal interval there isn't a problem.
Dry, dusty airfields are only an issue for continual operations - half a dozen take-off's isn't going to make significant difference to engine wear.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You'd have to send ordinance by sea prior. Otherwise you're flying them 10,200 miles each way to drop one load of bombs?

Good point. If we focus on fuel and range the route I chose should work.

I think the bigger challenge is preparing the refueling. Each Blenheim carries 1,260 L (280 imp gallon), and travels 1,460 mi (2,350 km), for a fuel burn of about 5 mpg (imp). 10,200 miles will require 2,040 imp gallons per aircraft. 130 aircraft will need 265,000 imp gallons. A standard British barrel holds 35 imp gallon (159 L), meaning we need about 7,600 barrels of fuel (plus oil and spares) dispersed along the route.

Here's the more usual pace of refueling in the Sudan. British Imperial Airways Handley Page H.P.42/45 Aircraft

Of course we don't have to send Blenheims. Wellingtons and Beauforts have longer legs and would be of more use in the coming war in Malaya.

 

[Shortround6]

Captain R.C. Here

Nobody ferried aircraft with bombs on board. You are just waiting for an accident to happen, especially with 10 or more landings and take-offs in route.
In fact with fighters (and some times with bombers) no guns were carried to lighten the planes up, (sometimes bombers had the guns packed in the fuselage to cut drag).
From the summer of 1940 until Dec 1942 you can't fly over Africa from Gibraltar as most of West Africa is French territory. They may not be able to enforce a no fly zone very well but you are flying over Vichy French territory with all the problems that might entail (lost planes, captured crewmen, etc). Detouring around it may not be possible.

You could send the planes by ship (as was done historically) to the Gold Coast assemble the planes and fly on from there.

Bristol engines only got to 3000hrs between overhauls with post war commercial sleeve valve radials. You would probably be lucky to get 300 hours on a pre war or early war poppet valve engine.

It might takes weeks if not several months to set up the logistics for such a flight. It may well have been possible. Heck they landed Tomahawks at Accra and flew them to Egypt.
But it is not an undertaking to be used for quick reinforcement.

 

[GrauGeist]

It's 1,103 miles from Gibraltar to Malta as the crow flies...

 

[MikeMeech]

Hi
A couple of examples of aircraft transiting the Med during 1942,. first a Beaufighter going to Egypt via Malta in January 1942 (p.55 of 'The Armed Rovers' by Roy C Nesbit):

If aircraft were going further on they could use the routes on the maps I have already posted to get to the Far East from Egypt.
Second example is a deployment of 217 Squadron Beauforts to Malta in June 1942 (p.136-137 'Torpedo Airmen' also by Nesbit):

Mike

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's 1,103 miles from Gibraltar to Malta as the crow flies...

Malta is under siege, not exactly a good marshalling point for refueling and ferrying a fleet of bombers.

 

[GrauGeist]

Oops, my bad - dunno why I was thinking late '39 - early '40