federal standard numbers ?

Discussion in 'Painting Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by rochie, May 29, 2009.

  1. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    right the question is after looking at vallejo paints for the new kits i've got, i've come across a problem !
    should i choose the paint the FS numbers match up to, or should i go with the vallejo paint reference numbers when they differ ????????

    I:E if vallejo says number 123, but FS indicates vallejo number 321, which should i go for?
     
  2. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Karl there are references charts for almost all paints with their samples. For exampl, if you need a green colour and the FS indicates the yellow one so will you follow it? I think you won't right?
     
  3. Airframes

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    Wojtek is right. In Matt's thread about a particular shade of red, I looked up the FS numbers on the official FS site. There were a number of colours/shades that were nowhere near what the colour names 'said' they were. However, there can often be some misleading advice re these numbers, as the sequence denotes the type of paint, i.e., gloss, semi gloss, semi matt, matt etc., and it's easy (even for a kit or model paints company) to get one figure wrong, or the numbers transposed, or in the wrong sequence.
    I'd tend to go with the colour reference for the manufacturer's paints, for example, if Vallejo say that RLM 76 is Model Color 70907, then use that, if Humbrol 27 is Dark Sea Grey, and RLM 74 equivalent, then that's the one to use, and so on.
    Also, check against the paint equivalents cross-reference charts on the forum, and from IPMS Sweden. There are still some discrepancies in parts of these, but by checking more than one chart, an answer can usually be found.
     
  4. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Wojtec, Terry

    Terry it was on the ipms Stockholm site that i noticed the differences ! and when i cross reffed with the vallejo paint charts i was getting two sometimes three different paint numbers, especialy if i tried to confirm the colour was right by checking against another manufacture, for example Tamiya !!!
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Ah! Lifes a B*tch! Yes, I've had that problem too mate. It's not too bad if you know what the colour looks like, but I'm guessing you're looking at Japanese aircraft colours, for your new kits? If so, I'd be in the same boat, as I've no idea on these colours! What about the two ref charts that were posted here? I think one of them is at the top of this section, in the 'stickies'. Otherwise, it's a case of seeing if someone like Wayne can tell you, as he uses Tamiya I believe, and then cross-referencing against the Vallejo web-site charts.
    I must admit, I have found the occassional discrepancy on the IPMS site, in paints, and in internal colours.
    If all else fails, maybe an e-mail to Vallejo might provide the answer? it's possible that the written comparisons have been muddled up when typed/printed whatever.
     
  6. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    not just japanese colours mate, they seem straight forward !!!

    i've been looking at FAA, german RLM's esp the dessert colours and even early and late RAF colours which i know in humbrol numbers, but when i try to convert some to vallejo they dont have a match, hence looking at FS and tamiya thats where the descrepancie happens for example the match for sky type s in vallejo is pastel green !!!!.

    if i get time i'll compile a list of what i mean later today
     
  7. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    OK mate. It would be much easier being able to actually see the paints. That's why I'm not keen on ordering 'unknown' types of paint by mail order. Too many years of going to the shop, seeing whay I want, and buying it!
    Which reminds me, gotta nip out to Iris's model shop, three of my fairly new Humbrol colours have gone solid, already!!
     
  8. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Post up your list Karl, I'll see if I can help too...
     
  9. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    Been there a few times chaps, ending up double and triple check back and forth....:oops: :lol:
     
  10. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    #10 rochie, May 31, 2009
    Last edited: May 31, 2009
    here's my problem paints, from left to right
    RLM 79 brown, FS number30219 = vallejo number 874 us tan earth.
    but vallejo RLM 79 = number 843 cork brown.
    Then does vallejo number 906 pale blue look ok for RLM 78?
    then how about number 975 military green japanese army.
    number971 grey-green japanese navy
     

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  11. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #11 Wurger, May 31, 2009
    Last edited: May 31, 2009
    First of all if you know the RLM number it is easy to find out the correct paint name. So...RLM79 was called "Sandgelb" what means sand-yellow. If you look at the sample you might notice the colour was quite brown of yellow tonality. The FS 30219 indicates Dark Tan colour what is equivalent of Humbrol118 called US Tan Brown. Using Urban's Reference Chart in IPMS Stockholm site you will notice thet the colour was "RLM 79 Sandbraun" and its FS equivalents are 33448 and 35414.Looking at their samples we can spot that both colours aren't brown rather but sand-yellow.Vallejo chart says for MODEL AIR paints RLM79 - 71034 but for MODEL COLOR RLM79 - 843 position 133. And there is the mistake.Because the position number 133 is Khaki Grey but the position 134 is the US Tan colour what is the Vallejo 874 US Tan Earth Brown. To sum up....the Vallejo 843 pos.133 is not the cork brown colour because according to the Vallejo chart it is "Khaki Grau" - Khaki Grey.But the cork brown name indicates a colour that can be the SandGelb one.And I think it is a correct name ( but not for the paint at the position ).It looks like the MODEL COLOR 847 position 123 or 912 position 122. I believe that the mistake has been made not only to the position numbers but to the paint number and names as well.Comparing the 874 number and 847 one I'm sure the digits were displaced.
    Karl, have you seen a cork oak wood (its rind rather)? If not here you are.The kind of wood is used for many things, I'm sure you know what I mean...:lol:
    If you look at the cork bulletin-board in the last pic here you can point out that its colour is very similar to the MODEL COLOR 847 position 123 sample. Getting all of my thoughts into consideration I can say that the Vallejo MODEL AIR 71034 and the MODEL COLOR 847 position 123 or 912 position 122 are these correct paints for the RLM 79.Uff I'm tired now....to be continued.
     

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  12. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    thanks Wojtec i wait patiently for the rest :lol:
     
  13. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #13 Wurger, May 31, 2009
    Last edited: May 31, 2009
    ok...:lol:

    RLM78 Hellblau - Humbrol 47/175 called Azure Blue as well.. Using Urban's Reaference Chart the name of the paint is RLM 78 Himmelblau and two FS numbers are suggested FS 35353 and FS35414. Their samples are below.It seems that the colours are similar to the Vallejo Model Air paint 71044 ( a little bit too dark I think ) or Model Colouur 905 position 156 ( slightly too light in my opinion). But....
    According to my info the colour was of blue and quite intense tonality.That's way I would suggest the FS35450 as better looking one.Although the Azure Blue ( Himmelblau ) paint is offered by Vallejo as Model Colour 902 position 62 but it seems that the colour is too blue sky looking at the Vallejo reference chart.
    In Vallejo Model Air series the colour could be the 71008 one and in the Model Colour series the 906 pos.64 but both seem to be too dark.Maybe a few drops of the white paint can correct their tonality.
    That's way I would suggest to use a mixture of the Vallejo Model Colour 902 pos.62 and the Model Colour 907 pos.153.
     

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  14. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Great work Wojtek! That will really help a lot. Maybe we should contact Vallejo and point out that they have mixed up some of their reference numbers.
    I recently sotted a list of Vallejo RLM colours in a magazine from about 2 years ago. When I find which pile it's in, I'll post it, as I believe it's as supplied to the magazine, and not from their catalogue, so it might have the correct numbers.
     
  15. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    thanks once again Wojtec, that helps a lot 8):lol:
     
  16. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #16 Wurger, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
    THX Karl, THX Terry. :)

    To be honest there is a problem with these Japanese WW2 colours. Unfortunately there were used a few tonalities of each colour.You chose the Vallejo Model Colour 975 as the Army Green and the no. 971 as the Grey-green one.Here you are samples of ModelMaster II Japanese WW2 colours. Comparing to the MM chart these of Vallejo aren't similar.On one site about Japanese colours I have found these N2 and N10 samples.Although the N2 Dark Green is similar to the MM Army Green , it seems that the N10 Green-Grey isn't the Japanese Navy Green-grey.It looks much more like the Army Light Grey.Checking the Urban's Reference Chart I found the FS36307 sample which looks almost like the Navy Green-Grey.Because it is on a couple of reference charts I think that it is correct.Also found the FS36492 which looks like the Army Light Grey for Mitsubishi manufacturer.Another one for the Nakajima factory was FS34424 which is similar to the Army Light Grey as well.


    to be continued,
     

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  17. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #17 Wurger, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
    So for camparing we have the two colours FS36307 and the Vallejo Model Colour 971 pos.106.Undoubtedly these look different. But going through the Vallejo colour charts I found that the Vallejo Model Air 015 and 011 and Vallejo Model Colour 968 pos.83 could be used as well.Also it seems that if some of (light) grey paint would be add to the Vallejo Model Colour 971 pos.106 it would become the colour of the similar tonality
    Anyway I think that there isn't the IJN grey-green colour in the Vallejo palette and it has to be obtained by mixing.The Vallejo Model Colour 968 pos.83 seems to be the closest one to the FS sample though.
     

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  18. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Great stuff Wojtek.
     
  19. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #19 Wurger, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
    THX Terry...:)

    And now a little about the Army Green.It appears that the colour had a few tonalities as well.It depended on a factory where an aircraft was assembled.Fo instance the Mitsubishi one used FS34092 but Nakajima used FS34058.I checked Urban's Reference Chart and found out that the Green colour was of other tonalities : FS34056,34077,34079,34086,34094,34095. Looking at the ModelMaster chart the FS34079,34086,34095 are quite similar to the IJA Green.The FS34056 is quite dark and matches better as the IJN Green I think.
    On another site I found the N2 colour sample.The one is close to the IJN Green and the FS34092 too.Also FS34094 seems to be closer to the IJN Green than to IJA Green colour.

    I think that these FS34079 and FS34086 are very close to the Army Green by Model Master.
     

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  20. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #20 Wurger, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
    You have chosen the Vallejo Model Colour 975 pos 89 for the Army Green.Comparing to the Model Master sample of the paint it appeares that the Vallejo one is too green and it is not the colour I think.
    Looking at the Vallejo Colour charts I chose a couple of samples that can be used for the Army Green.Of course these have to be mixed with the white or black one mostly.

    From Model Air series - 011,014,019.
    From Model Colour serie 823 pos.86, 843 pos.133, 879 pos.114, 890 pos.90.

    In my opinion the 879 pos.114 matches the best.
     

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