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It's my understanding the RAF did not release 100 octane fuel for combat use until May 1940. So during 1939 a Spitfire I in combat condition will be topping out at 353 mph.
However, as has been pointed out the earlier Spitfires were lighter and thus faster:
and topped out at 367 mph.
As has already been pointed out, those 367mph early model Spitfires were not combat ready and therefore do not meet the criteria for this timeline.
Just for the record folks, we're splitting hairs here. As stated in earlier threads the 13 mph were talking here will hardly be noticeable in combat and having flown that fast I can tell you that you can barely push the stick forward and pick up 13 mph in a blink.
Not to mention all the errors to correct measurements including aircraft trim, manufacturing tolerances, engines performance, wear and tear on the aircraft, engine tolerances, air data system tolerances and error, etc.
Have you ever flown a airplane over 300 mph??? As stated, you can pick up that much speed in a slight nose down configuration in seconds and not even realize it. In close quarters it's irrelevant - that's the point!Hi,
20mph(32km/h) at that time was very much. Sure, as long as the pilots all use stupid turnfight tactics, like the F2A pilots over Midway, the speed is not important, but when a Hurri Pilot in his 512km/h plane did try to follow a 560km/h 109E, he would have been happy if his Vmax would have been 545km/h.
Ok...Btw, in aircombat the ability to maintain energy(smal drag, big inertia) is same important, or even more important, like to gain energy(acceleration).
During the course of the war, pilots learned how to fight in the vertical as aircraft performance dictated and take advantage of the "yo-yo" which is implied in your first statementMany good fighters had a not that good acceleration(climb), still they was heavy, had a good initial(cruise) speed(much inertia), smal drag and good dive a acceleration. Only in a WWI like combat this was not important.
In early WWII, after tests, the allieds realy thought the Hurri was as good as the 109E, cause they didnt understood what the Luftwaffe tactics was up to.
But anyway, the 109E4 also made 570km/h with the 5 min power setting and the Spitfire, which came to the units made also just around 570km/h, while the Spitfire made this in a little higher altitude, though, here the 109E was just 5 km/h slower, what is realy nothing(normal fluctuation).
In lower altitude the 109E had an advantage with its higher combat power and 5 min power, at take off power(WEP) both planes was roundabout same fast(around 500km/h sea level), but we miss real test datas with this power setting.
Greetings,
Knegel
..., whilst MkII Hurricanes sent to Burma ran like overweight MkI's because of poor fuel quality.
Have you ever flown a airplane over 300 mph??? As stated, you can pick up that much speed in a slight nose down configuration in seconds and not even realize it. In close quarters it's irrelevant - that's the point!
As far as "chasing" an airplane that already has a 20 MPH advantage in front of you - it its already out of your firing solution or you don't have the altitude to pick up speed in a dive to intercept, you simply let it go and choose your fight that gives you the advantage.
If you change your scenario and place the Hurricane at a 2 or 3000' altitude advantage, above and behind, a slight dive may take that 512 km/h airspeed and turn it into a brief 580 km/h. Depending on the distance of the chase a firing solution can be achieved.
Ok...
During the course of the war, pilots learned how to fight in the vertical as aircraft performance dictated and take advantage of the "yo-yo" which is implied in your first statement
Again, hardly noticeable when you're already in close quarters. The only time one will see any slight speed advantage/ disadvantage is if both planes are at the same altitude, straight and level and depending if the slower or faster aircraft is out front and the distance between them.
What i want to say is: A given Vmax is not just Vmax to compare the level speed, its give a hint to the drag/thrust relation and this influence the whole flight.
Greetings,
Knegel
Depending on the model and altitude its actually more like 30 - 40 mphAt best height(4200m) the P40C was just around 15mph faster than the early Zero or Oscar, the later japanes fighters was faster.
"IF" Totally irrelevantIf someone would mess up the surface of your P40C, so that it fly just 523km/h instead of 555km/h, then even the A6M2 and Ki-43-I would have been faster, then the P40C wouldnt have had any real advantage left.
It's going to depend where in the combat situation you're talking about. In close quarters its not going to matter.The 15mph higher Vmax (level speed), always keeping in mind that this was archieved with way more weight and more power than the japanese planes had, indicate that this plane always can get home, to wait for the next possibility to attack with an initial advantage
Disagree - I've flown simulated combat in real aircraft at speeds between 250 and 350 mph and flew in an aircraft with a slight speed disadvantage and you would not notice 20 mph in close quarters. At wingtip to wingtip with a slightly faster plane it's a slow creep depending on the faster plane's ability to accelerate, again power to weight ratio.Sure you can gain or lose 20mph fast, just by pointing the nose a little up - or downward, but same the enemy plane on your tail will do. Specialy if you want to get away from a better turning plane, but also if you want to catch(stay on the tail until you was able to bring the enemy down) a faster plane, 20mph more or less are like light years.
btw, i dont say the Vmax (level flight) is the only important factor for aircombat, but 20mph(32km/h) is a lot.
Greetings,
knegel
Depending on the model and altitude its actually more like 30 - 40 mph
.
Model 21 and P-40C around 15 mph Model 21 and P-40B around 20 (330 to 345 and 350) best altitude around 15k' for all three
P-40B had a top speed of 352 mph. The Tomahawk IIA 347 mph. The AM62 Model 21 330 mph, 282 at se level, the Ki-43IA - 308 mph. Again depends on altitude...
Look at the numbers - A Model 21 Zero is barely making 300 mph at sea level. The P-40 is seeing 350 at altitude. The Oscar's KI-43Ia barely makes 300 at altitude.so at that altitude there is a 30/40 mph advantage?
Look at the numbers - A Model 21 Zero is barely making 300 mph at sea level. The P-40 is seeing 350 at altitude. The Oscar's KI-43Ia barely makes 300 at altitude.
350 mph P-40B or C at SL? what's your source??