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I think it´s pretty safe to challenge this statement. The Bf-109F struggled over France? If so, then no less than the Fw-190. As a matter of fact, the RAF had a very negative fighter exchange ratio versus Bf-109F and Fw-190A over France and particularely vs Bf-109 over Malta and North Afrika in the 1941 to 1942 timeframe. I can only see an empirical but no statistical justification to make this claim. The Fw-190 impressed the RAF because it was something new. Had they been able to test a Bf-109F4 in good condition, they would have been more impressed wrt performances.
The soviets tested both and found the Fw-190A beeing less dangerous than the Bf-109F/G of this timeframe.
The main task of the fighter force on the western front (France) was defending against RAF attacks, combined fighter and bomber attacks. The 109F was, performance-wise, more or less evenly matched against the Spitfire
No Bf-109G2 was ever tested by the RAE. They got a modified Bf-109G6/R6 Wilde Sau nightfighter with gunpods and additional equipment which has nothing to do with a Bf-109F4 in relation to performances.Speculation. They did evaluate the rather similar 109 G-2 and it didn't impress them as much as the Fw did.
High priority? That´s laughable, KK.Speculation. The DB603 was one of Daimlers high priority projects, so I think it was sufficiently pressed, maybe even more so than the BMW801. The 801 simply matured faster.
The first 120 Db-603 were produced in 1941, so basically yes, it could have been forced into production earlier.Could've been investigated? Yes. Would've been production ready earlier than 1943? No.
How so? The Bf-109F2 perhaps but the Bf-109F4 was significantly better than the Spit V in level speed, acceleration and climb performance. I have never seen a speed figure for any Spitfire V variant showing a faster speed than 375 mp/h. The corresponding figure for the -F4 with 1.42 ata was in the region of 404 to 416 mp/h.
No Bf-109G2 was ever tested by the RAE.
Most sources give 390 as the top for the f4. As it was 109f and spit v were considered evenly matched.
allies captured a 109g2 in North Africa.
I'm interested in where you got these figures from.I have never seen a speed figure for any Spitfire V variant showing a faster speed than 375 mp/h. The corresponding figure for the -F4 with 1.42 ata was in the region of 404 to 416 mp/h
Again, that seems ambitious, I can't find anything that puts the G-2 over 400mph.The only Bf-109G2 tested by allied intelligence units was one tested by the VVS, which had a top speed of 414 mp/h, despite engine problems
I'm sure you know about the Black Six. Sure, it's a Trop but it's similar enough. It weighs more and has a more powerful engine (compromised by the filter) and apparently had a fixed tailwheel (alhough that wasn't necessarily so for all G-2s). Other than that the airframe is similar. Overall, performance-wise, the G-2 Trop should be very close to the F-4, but probably a tad less maneouverable.No Bf-109G2 was ever tested by the RAE. They got a modified Bf-109G6/R6 Wilde Sau nightfighter with gunpods and additional equipment which has nothing to do with a Bf-109F4 in relation to performances.
The only Bf-109G2 tested by allied intellegence units was one tested by the VVS, which had a top speed of 414 mp/h, despite engine problems. And yes, appearently its performances impressed the VVS.
I said it had a priority within Daimler not within the RLM, but yeah that was stretching it. It doesn't matter anyways. The BMW801 was as reliable in 1941 as the DB603 was only in 1943. That's the facts and all what if's and if not's won't change it.High priority? That´s laughable, KK.
The Db-603 was begun in 1936 but the RLM effectively stopped funding of the program in 1937. The engine continued under PRIVATE FUNDING in within the Daimler Benz company until a reassesment was done inspite of the 2800 hp delivered at benchtests in 1939. RLM reauthorized funding of the engine in early 1940. So in between 1937 and 1940, the Db-603 was a low priority engine without any funding provided by the gouvernment.
Hmm, I wonder then why it took them until 1944 to get them anywhere near the desired 100 hours between MROs. That was all after official funding was back to normal.The first 120 Db-603 were produced in 1941, so basically yes, it could have been forced into production earlier.
Thanks HenningHi Colin
The red line is the official German Kennblatt data for the F-2. Obviously, the F-4 with a more powerful engine would be faster than this
Thanks for that HenningIf I extrapolate Me 109F-4 performance from Me 109F-1/2 performance, assuming drag did not change between the two versions, I get 627 km/h @ 5.7 km for the combat power setting and 636 km/h @ 5.85 km for the emergency power setting (1.42 ata, 2700 rpm)
I've never seen a report suggesting the Bf109F had anything like that kind of a speed advantage over the Spitfire Mk V; 416mph - that's Fw190A-4 territory and faster than most of the other A series Focke-wulf a/c.Hohun surely you know of F-4 test with 660/670 km/h
Are You familar with the BMW-801C MRO intervals? If 100 hours was the desired MRO interval to qualify for operationally reliable engines, then the -801C cannot be considered RELIABLE by 1941, too. Correct me, if Im wrong. The december 1941 state of Fw-190 engine reliability required 25 hours MRO intervals.I said it had a priority within Daimler not within the RLM, but yeah that was stretching it. It doesn't matter anyways. The BMW801 was as reliable in 1941 as the DB603 was only in 1943. That's the facts and all what if's and if not's won't change it.
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Hmm, I wonder then why it took them until 1944 to get them anywhere near the desired 100 hours between MROs. That was all after official funding was back to normal.
at example F-4 consume 350 l/h at combat power (30 min.) and have 400 liter so it's not as you told30 minutes is a long time for aerial combat. The Me-109 would probably run out of fuel before the engine blows up.