109-011 C jet engine specs

[helicopter_parachute]

This is my first post on this site so sorry if my question is too easily answered I am not well versed in the ways of the plane oh wise ones, I would like some extra info on this engine as for my science research assignment I am designing a theoretical improvement to the me262, this upgrade to the engine coupled with the HGIII could massively improve the speed, any info on this engine would be appreciated, thank you.

 

[Wurger]

To start ...

Jumo 109 Jet Engine

Just stumbled onto this.

ww2aircraft.net

 

[helicopter_parachute]

Thats very helpful but I was more so inquiring on proposed C variation that was (supposedly) going to be roughly the same size and have over 16 KN of thrust, I find this quite dubious to say the least and I was wondering if this is one of those nazi things where they write something down on a napkin and say it was a "plan" for something or if there was already a dedicated design drawn up. obviously an exaggeration but you catch my drift

 

[Wurger]

I see. Also you may have a look at the thread. Perhaps you could find something more ...

Heinkel Jet engines

Here is little on there engine note on Von Ohain said 70% of the work on the o-11 was to have as little heat-resisting steel as possible.To do it they lost 1500lbs of thrust. from me and the net.

ww2aircraft.net

 

[tomo pauk]

Thats very helpful but I was more so inquiring on proposed C variation that was (supposedly) going to be roughly the same size and have over 16 KN of thrust, I find this quite dubious to say the least and I was wondering if this is one of those nazi things where they write something down on a napkin and say it was a "plan" for something or if there was already a dedicated design drawn up. obviously an exaggeration but you catch my drift

What would be the source for the 16 kN thrust figure?

 

[helicopter_parachute]

What would be the source for the 16 kN thrust figure?

Unfortunately after looking I could only really find the information on Wikipedia and some other small sources that just link back to Wikipedia, so I'm not going to act like my sources are good... Because They are not, however I'm not very good at this stuff so if you have any documents pertaining to that specific variety that you could find, then that would be great (besides another Wikipedia article of course)

 

[tomo pauk]

Unfortunately after looking I could only really find the information on Wikipedia and some other small sources that just link back to Wikipedia, so I'm not going to act like my sources are good... Because They are not, however I'm not very good at this stuff so if you have any documents pertaining to that specific variety that you could find, then that would be great (besides another Wikipedia article of course)

Wikipedia notes 9.81 kN of thrust for the 004C, not 16 kN.

 

[helicopter_parachute]

Wikipedia notes 9.81 kN of thrust for the 004C, not 16 kN.

Yes, but I am referring to the 109-011 C, or am I making a mistake?

 

[tomo pauk]

Yes, but I am referring to the 109-011 C, or am I making a mistake?

You're okay, I'm an old fart
It was a 950 kg engine. Compared with 750 kg Jumo 004, a bit newer generation, so it should've made greater thrust. French pusher the early Atar (a development of the BMW 003) to 27 kN, on same weight as the 011 and certainly better materials.
IMO and FWIW, the 16 kN figure is plausible.

 

[helicopter_parachute]

You're okay, I'm an old fart
It was a 950 kg engine. Compared with 750 kg Jumo 004, a bit newer generation, so it should've made greater thrust. French pusher the early Atar (a development of the BMW 003) to 27 kN, on same weight as the 011 and certainly better materials.
IMO and FWIW, the 16 kN figure is plausible.

Thank you oh wise plane person for helping me on my endeavours

 

[helicopter_parachute]

You're okay, I'm an old fart
It was a 950 kg engine. Compared with 750 kg Jumo 004, a bit newer generation, so it should've made greater thrust. French pusher the early Atar (a development of the BMW 003) to 27 kN, on same weight as the 011 and certainly better materials.
IMO and FWIW, the 16 kN figure is plausible.

One more thing that I might need help with, for the experimental HGIII design which is objectively the coolest looking design for the 262, an increase from the 12.7 KN to the 16KN engine would obviously improve speed, but as a rough estimate how much of an improvement do you think it would be?

 

[tomo pauk]

Thank you oh wise plane person for helping me on my endeavours

I could be probably described as smart-ass, rather than a wise one.

One more thing that I might need help with, for the experimental HGIII design which is objectively the coolest looking design for the 262, an increase from the 12.7 KN to the 16KN engine would obviously improve speed, but as a rough estimate how much of an improvement do you think it would be?

'Objectively the coolest looking' - what one can learn today ...
As for how much the increase of speed we're looking at - anywhere between 50 to 100 km/h (ie. 10% gain)? With the caveat that even the HGII speed figures (up to 1000 km/h) were only calculated, not flown.

 

[Snautzer01]

I must have a chart , calculated, somewhere. I do believe i posted it on this board.

 

[GrauGeist]

The HGIII held potential in it's design, due to several improvements over the A1-a's layout, particularly with the buried engines and lower canopy.

Some of those ideas were tested on Me262 V9 (HG I) in anticipation of the HG II design, such as the streamlined canopy and the proposed "V-tail". The "V-tail" proved to be unstable and was eliminated.

As for the jet engines, the 109 prefix denoted "non-piston, air breathing engines", the following suffix denoted a manufacturer's engine assigned in the order of development.

The 109-011 was the Heinkel-Hirth HeS011, the 109-004 was Junker's Jumo004.

The 109-003 was BMW's jet engine, 109-007 was assigned to Daimler-Benz's project and so on.
Of course, there was the well known 109-014 pulsejet manufactured by Argus for the V-1, too.

 

[Snautzer01]

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