Fw 190D and Me 109K vs. Yak-3 and La-7
- Thread starter spicmart
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
- Thread starter
- #3
Would you explain, why?
Their performance was not as 'locked' to the lower altitudes as it was the case for the Soviet stuff. They also carried drop tanks - a very rare sight on Soviet fighters - that gave better range/radius.
The only Soviet fighter that was supposed to do as good as those German A/C at altitude was the Yak-9U, but a) it is not topic here, and b) the VK-107s were very unreliable.
The only Soviet fighter that was supposed to do as good as those German A/C at altitude was the Yak-9U, but a) it is not topic here, and b) the VK-107s were very unreliable.
GregP
Major
Wait, you left out the P-39 ... sorry, couldn't resist ... slap me. Maybe is was a Bellonov Airakobra with an Alliskulin engine and Curtisokvsky propeller?
I'm with Tomo in his choice unless you were predictably fighting at low altitudes. Then it would be tough to beat the late model Lavochkins and Yakovlevs. They were pretty good down low. Many a Bf 109 and Fw 190 stalled out down low trying to follow a tight, low-altitude turn over the Russian steppes.
I'm with Tomo in his choice unless you were predictably fighting at low altitudes. Then it would be tough to beat the late model Lavochkins and Yakovlevs. They were pretty good down low. Many a Bf 109 and Fw 190 stalled out down low trying to follow a tight, low-altitude turn over the Russian steppes.
Admiral Beez
Major
I imagine, like their shock at encountering the T-34, the Germans were surprised to realize that the VSS had any competitive fighters, let alone lots of them. The German 109 and 190 may have maintained one on one superiority, but not sufficiently so to overcome the numerical difference.
And just look at the Lavochkin La-7. This thing is just made for killing Germans.
Last edited:
To my knowledge, the better Soviet fighters appeared only later in the way and until then, the Luftwaffe was superior to the Soviet air force, having both better aircraft and better pilots since few of the Red Army's lasted long enough to become experienced.
Admiral Beez
Major
Well yes, we are discussing two specific aircraft, Yak-3 and La-7 that appeared later in the war.
- Thread starter
- #11
The performance curve of the D-9 actually is similar to the La-7's with both peaking at 5.5 to 6 km IIrc.
Yes. Let me reformulate: German aircraft in question cover the greater altitude band than the Soviet aircraft in question.
- Thread starter
- #13
Almost 6 km is quite high for a dedicated low altitude fighter if you ask me. You could call it medium alt even.
Yes, La-7 was not a dedicated low altitude fighter.
Admiral Beez
Major
Was anything intended as a low altitude fighter?
That sounds like a cop out, Firm X launches a new fighter aircraft and it turns out to be rubbish at medium to high altitude. So, to recoup any expense they market it as a dedicated low altitude fighter. Westland's Whirlwind or Hawker's Typhoon come to mind.
No one is asking for a dogfighter to perform at Ta 152 heights of over 40,000 feet, but any 1940-45, monoplane, single seat, single engined, retractible undercarriage fighter that's out of puffs above 15,000 feet needs to go back to the drawing board.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #16
You know the performance of the La-7 over full pressure height? Did it deteriorate more quickly than the D-9's? I don't know about that.
Well spotted. To be fair the Fw 190D9 was an interim or transition type using surplus bomber engine production Jumo 213A. The Fw 190D13 already was in production as was the Ta 152C and H. All 2 stage 3 speed superchargers (Jumo 213 E or F)
- Thread starter
- #18
Were D-12/13 as good at low and medium height as D-9? If so, then, the Dora would have a definite advantage over the band.
Last edited:
CORSNING
Tech Sergeant
The following performance information for a mid-production La-7. It comes
from NII VVS graphs 0216 / 0217 Beginning 1945 located on the rkka.es site.
Information for the Fw 190D-9 comes from a graph in Dietmar Hemann's
"Long-Nose" book in which he states this performance is typical of the
Fw 190D-9 with MW50. The first MW50 powered Fw 190D-9 became officially
operational 18 December 1944. The figures are for a clean Fw 190D-9 minus
the ETC504.
Fw 190D-9 (La-7)
Altitude / Speed / Climb
Meters / MPH / FPM
S.L.........382 / 4429 ( 383 / 4410 )
1,000...395 / 4390 ( 398 / 4410 )
2,000...408 / 4125 ( 396 / 4054 )
3,000...412 / 4105 ( 401 / 3512 )
4,000...421 / 3985 ( 395 / 2959 )
5,000...432 / 3495 ( 400 / 2795 )
6,000...432 / 2990 ( 414 / 2474 )
7,000...426 / 2500 ( 409 / 2041 )
8,000...418 / 1990 ( 395 / 1608 )
9,000...408 / 1485 ( N.G. / 1175 )
from NII VVS graphs 0216 / 0217 Beginning 1945 located on the rkka.es site.
Information for the Fw 190D-9 comes from a graph in Dietmar Hemann's
"Long-Nose" book in which he states this performance is typical of the
Fw 190D-9 with MW50. The first MW50 powered Fw 190D-9 became officially
operational 18 December 1944. The figures are for a clean Fw 190D-9 minus
the ETC504.
Fw 190D-9 (La-7)
Altitude / Speed / Climb
Meters / MPH / FPM
S.L.........382 / 4429 ( 383 / 4410 )
1,000...395 / 4390 ( 398 / 4410 )
2,000...408 / 4125 ( 396 / 4054 )
3,000...412 / 4105 ( 401 / 3512 )
4,000...421 / 3985 ( 395 / 2959 )
5,000...432 / 3495 ( 400 / 2795 )
6,000...432 / 2990 ( 414 / 2474 )
7,000...426 / 2500 ( 409 / 2041 )
8,000...418 / 1990 ( 395 / 1608 )
9,000...408 / 1485 ( N.G. / 1175 )
- Thread starter
- #20
Wow. It shows that up to 1000 m there wasn't much difference in speed and climb. From 2000 m onwards the D-9 pulls away.
But the La-7 and Yak-3 had to have been much more nimble in vertical and horizontal manoeuvers (according to Urbanke's book).
Which would still give them sort of an advantage as the performance gap is not enough for Dora down low.
In climb the D-9 prevails and turn radius at speed is very good, not sure equal to the Soviet fighters or not.
I've seen a chart which gave the D-9 a max speed of 702 km/h / 437 mp/h?
Last edited:
