FW190D-9 vs Allied fighters

[Demopan78]

Potential Mk XIV losses to 109D-9s, listed by serial number from Caygill. I've excluded everything listed as accident, flak or other circumstances. Total is 19 aircraft. I don't have the spare time at the moment to look up all of the losses, but there are plenty of databases online:

RB187
RB141
MB842
RM695
RM671
RM749
RM746
RM765 - Confirmed by Caygill as 'Shot down by FW 190D of JG 26 near Munster'
Unidentified 610 Squadron aircraft shot down during armed recce on 09 Feb 1945
RN120
RN123
RM750 - Likely 190D loss, reported by Claygill as 'Shot down by JG 26'
RM871
RB 185 - Confirmed by Foreman as a loss to F

i have heard about NH686 i think groenstens aircraft was chased by marquardt but hit the debris and crashed

 

[MikeMeech]

there was also an spitfire XIV claimed by walter soffing JG 26 (need to confirmit, or wether it is a overclaim)

Hi
What date is this related to? Page 422 of previous source has Lt Waldemar Soffing of JG 26 claiming a Spitfire XIV on 14 Feb. 1945 for his 24th victory, however, the RAF did not lose any in the engagement concerned. Also page 518 has Soffing of 2.Staffel claiming a 'Griffon' Spitfire on 29 April, 1945 at 1253 hrs, only Merlin Spitfires were involved. However, at that time Fw Helmut Walter of 1 Staffel was shot down and killed (it appears to be a hint that there was a friendly fire incident?), two other German pilots were also shot down and killed.

Mike

 

[Demopan78]

Hi
What date is this related to? Page 422 of previous source has Lt Waldemar Soffing of JG 26 claiming a Spitfire XIV on 14 Feb. 1945 for his 24th victory, however, the RAF did not lose any in the engagement concerned. Also page 518 has Soffing of 2.Staffel claiming a 'Griffon' Spitfire on 29 April, 1945 at 1253 hrs, only Merlin Spitfires were involved. However, at that time Fw Helmut Walter of 1 Staffel was shot down and killed (it appears to be a hint that there was a friendly fire incident?), two other German pilots were also shot down and killed.

Mike

ahaa got it

 

[Demopan78]

Hi
What date is this related to? Page 422 of previous source has Lt Waldemar Soffing of JG 26 claiming a Spitfire XIV on 14 Feb. 1945 for his 24th victory, however, the RAF did not lose any in the engagement concerned. Also page 518 has Soffing of 2.Staffel claiming a 'Griffon' Spitfire on 29 April, 1945 at 1253 hrs, only Merlin Spitfires were involved. However, at that time Fw Helmut Walter of 1 Staffel was shot down and killed (it appears to be a hint that there was a friendly fire incident?), two other German pilots were also shot down and killed.

Mike

in one of caldwells JG26 books, i found something

During 13 march 1945 when meiss was shot down by 130 sqn spitfires
marischka was credited with one 130 sqn spitfire on the same day

 

[Demopan78]

Spare 30 minutes, so lets see if we can track down any more D-9 kills of Mk XIVs

RB187: No. Patrol over Thames estuary evening thought crashed into sea.
RB141: No. Missing from patrol off Isle of Wight 03-Apr-1944
MB842: No. Ran out of fuel abandoned off Bolt Head 12-Jun-1944
RM695: No. Damaged by explosion of V-1 Hawkinge CB 01-Sep-1944, reclassified as category E 09-Sep-1944
RM671: No. Damaged by flak force landed in Belgium 06-Nov-1944, Hit truck on landing Amiens/Glisy Category E 14-Nov-1944
RM749: Possible but unlikely. Attacking MT [motor transport] attacked by fighters and force landed near Burgsteinfurt 08-Dec-44 F/Lt D J Wilson killed.

More information from here (08.12.1944 130 Squadron Spitfire XIV RM749 Flt Lt. Wilson, B.64 Diest, Burgsteinfurt, Germany, War Crime)

...armed reconnaissance and fighter sweep in the Münster area. Whilst attacking a train approximately 20 enemy Bf109 and Fw190 aircraft were sighted. During the ensuing engagement Flt Lt. Wilson was heard to call over the radio that his aircraft had been hit. He asked for a course back to base, which was provided, but a few minutes later at 15:30 hrs he was again heard on the radio that he was badly hit and was going down. His position at the time was NW of Burgsteinfurt. Nothing more was heard or seen of Flt Lt. Wilson or his aircraft by other members of the flight.

Hptm. Herbert Rehfeld (Bf109G) and Gefr. Breiter (Bf109G) of 8./JG 27 each claimed a Spitfire in the region of south Rheine on this day at 15:00 hrs & 14:57 hrs respectively. (OKL Reich, West & Südfront Aug-Dec 1944)...
​

So, unlikely it was a 190D-9 kill

RM746: Possible. Armed recce northern Germany in combat with Fw190s 18-12-44 F/Lt B M Madden RNZAF killed. Conflicting reports - some online sources give lost to flak, others give loss to FW190s.
Unidentified 610 Squadron aircraft shot down during armed recce on 09 Feb 1945
RN120: Possible. Missing from sweep to Paderborn 11-Feb-1945 W/O M F Harding killed.
RN123: Possible. Missing from patrol nearr Nijmegen 2-3-45 F/O C H Mottershead killed
RM750: Possible. Potential 190D-9 victory, reported by Caygill as 'Shot down by JG 26'.

More information: Missing presumed shot down by fighters near Rheine 02-Mar-1945. F/Lt George G. Earp 130 Squadron. Landed his Spitfire close to a barn at Umberg and captured by a Flak unit.

RM871: Possible. Missing on tactical recce to Zwolle 1-Apr-1945 F/Lt C J Blundell-Hill killed
RM843: Possible. Missing from sweep to Salzwedel 16-Apr-1945.
RN203: Possible. Combat with Fw190s on armed recce 19-Apr-1945
RM766: Possible. Combat with Fw190s 19-4-45 W/O P H J Clay BEM PoW - later released by US troops awarded DFC
NH686: Possible. Shot down by Fw190s near Berlin 20-April-45 W/O J Groensteen killed

More information from here (Diary - 350 (BELGIAN) Squadron - Royal Air Force):

A Sweep to Berlin sees the formation of 11 Spitfire's clash with 12 Fw-190. F/Lt D. Haworth, P/O D. Watkins, M. Doncq, and A. Kicq destroyed each one, with Kicq damaging another. R. Muls also damaged a Fw-190. W/O Jacques Groensteen was shot down and MIA. The same day, F/Lt K. Smith is shot down by flak and made POW after crash landing his Spitfire.
​

RM618: Possible. Combat with Fw190s nr Wismar 24-Apr-45

RM765 - Confirmed by Caygill as 'Shot down by FW 190D of JG 26 near Munster'
RB 185 - Confirmed by Foreman as a loss to FW 190D-9


So, for the moment I have 2 confirmed and 11 possibles, with one extra possible. Five are definitely not 109D-9 kills.

well the

More research:

RM746 - 610 Squadron records report B.M. Madden failed to return on 18 December 1944 after combat with 16 FW190s - includng four bomb carrying - encountered at 17,000 ft.

Tony Wood's Luftwaffe claims list has two Spitfire claims for the 18th, both from Unteroffizier Schmidt (no first name given) from 7 Staffel of JG 77. According to Foreman, this combat involved 66 Squadron and F/O W. Warhurst was lost. RAF records give the loss in that combat as a LF Mk IX. I can't find anything other than 109s operated by JG 77, so I consider this unlikely to be a 190D-9 kill of a Mk XIV.

RN120 - 610 Squadron records show aircraft piloted by W/O M. Harding failed to return from an armed recce of the Munster/Scoo(?)t, Paderborn/Munster area. Only opposition reported was light flak, so unlikely it was a 190D-9 kill of a Mk XIV.

RN123 and RN750 - Both lost on 02 March 1945 in a combat involving Mk XIVs from 130 and 350 squadrons and 109D-9s, 109Gs and 109K-4s from JG 26.

Tony Wood's claims list has the following Luftwaffe Spitfire claims for that date:

Uffz. Heinz Durchdewald, 12. JG 27, Spitfire at Ibbenbüren. Luftwaffe records show he we piloting a 109K-4 at the time
Fw. Werner Schreck, 10. JG 27, Spitfire 20km SE of Rheine. Luftwaffe records show he we piloting a 109G at the time
Oblt. Heinz-Günther Hennig 10. JG 27 Spitfire 10km SE Rheine. Luftwaffe records also show he was piloting a 109G
Hard to say, but it doesn't appear that any 109 D-9 pilots made Spitfire claims this day.

RM871 - RAF records has the aircraft crashed at Apeldoorn on tactical recce to Zwolle. Tony Wood's claims list has a Spitfire claimed by Uffz. Peter Köster of III. JG 7 for 01 April 1945. Luftwaffe records have JG7 operating a mix of 109Gs and Me 262s. Franz Peter Koster is listed as flying with 11/JG-7 from March, and being one of the top jet aces of WW2. So, maybe a Me 262 kill of a Mk XIV??

RM843: Reported missing from sweep to Salzwedel 16-Apr-1945. No Luftwaffe Spitfire claims on this day. RCAF records state: "F/L J. E. Maurice of the Winnipeg Bears failed to
return from an operation this day but got back to his squadron on May 5th." Similar story from 402 Squadron records. Given there were no claims made, unlikely this is a 190 D-9 caused loss.

i have heard that RM618 flown by De patoul was shot down by fw 190s and taken POW over wismar

wich luftwaffe unit flew over wismar in 24 april 1945?

 

[Demopan78]

And i found RM883 and RM848 and RM622 wich were strafed and destroyed by luftwaffe fighters during Opertiaon bodenplatte at eindhoven airfield