Gaston's ridiculous theories

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Rohit, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. Rohit

    Rohit New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I registered in this forums reading Gaston's ridiculous theories about fw 190 outturning spitfire, p47 outturning 109 etc.

    There are two main things that help a plane to win a sustained turn fight. One is power to weight(Or more exactly speaking thrust to weight). The better the power : weight ratio, the better the plane is in sustained turn rate. This is because the plane can afford to use more of its elevators to help the turn without bleeding off its speed and stalling.

    The second thing is wingloading. A plane with high wingloading would be generating less lift for its weight, to stay level in a flat turn. This means the plane is forced to increase its angle of attack, which generates more drag, thus if you want to keep the plane at its sustained turn speed, and not stall off, you must reduce the angle of bank, which decreases the turning rate(sustained).

    The spitfire was clearly superior to fw 190 in having a lighter wingloading, as well as a better power to weight ratio. On top of all, the spitfire elliptical wing had a low induced drag which allowed it to use more turn rate without the speed falling off.
     
  2. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    By 1940 I think Boom Zoom was the preferred way to fight. So I don't think sustained turn rate was as important as speed, acceleration, roll, climb and firepower.
     
  3. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    23,197
    Likes Received:
    779
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Aircraft Maintenance Manager/ Flight Instructor
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Rohit - while I agree with your opinions about Gaston for the most part I really don't want to see this thread turn into an all out flaming and pissing contest. If we keep the discussions civil, this thread will stay alive, if not, things will come to an abrupt halt.
     
  4. Kryten

    Kryten Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Llantrisant
    Turn rate comes in very handy when having to break into a bounce or taking evasive action!
     
  5. tyrodtom

    tyrodtom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    2,480
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    auto body repair
    Location:
    pound va
    I never thought Gaston was real, he was just putting out wild theories to see how people would react.
     
  6. Rohit

    Rohit New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Not talking about which is more preferred etc.

    Did that guy stop posting or something?
     
  7. Marcel

    Marcel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    6,976
    Likes Received:
    570
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bioinformatician
    Location:
    Dordrecht
    Who's Gaston?
     
  8. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7,511
    Likes Received:
    943
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He's still around the internet. He uses other usernames though.
    Steve
     
  9. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    That uses instantaneous turn rate. Not sustained turn rate.
     
  10. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,099
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Substitute teacher; graduate student
    Location:
    Connecticut, United States
    #10 Vassili Zaitzev, Sep 28, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
    Double.
     
  11. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,099
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Substitute teacher; graduate student
    Location:
    Connecticut, United States
    Maybe.....this guy?
    GastonVillain.jpg
     
  12. Balljoint

    Balljoint Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    Since the subject has more or less come up, does top rudder in a sustained steep bank utilize the fuselage as a sort of flat plate airfoil, i.e. would a P-47 be better in 90 degree bank than something a bit less tubby?
     
  13. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    If you are going to bank 90 degrees wouldn't a vector (or displacement) roll be better then a simple turn?
     
  14. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    5,905
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer, Aircraft Restoration
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, California, U.S.A.
    #14 GregP, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
    What the heck is a vector roll?

    I have flown both full scale and RC aerobatics at a competitive level and have never heard of it. Are you talking about a barrel roll, an aileron roll, a slow roll, a snap roll or what?

    Gaston was interesting. We had another interesting guy on another forum called "Neoconshooter." Sounded a lot like Gaston, but claimed to not be. Got banned after hijacking too many threads with pointers about "ACM" and his mastery of aerial combat in simulators. Claimed to have huindreds of flghts in real F-15's while wiorking as an Air Force simulator instructor ... but was also somehow in the Army aviation department at the same time. I'm not sure I miss them, but everyone has the right to their opinion ... and the moderators were quite tolerant and tried to turn these guys into contributing members.

    Alas, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Nothing in this post is intended as flames toward anyone ... just rambling, so enough ...

    Oh yeah, a 90° bank is a descending bank, unless you are flying a dedicated aerobatic aircraft with enough fuselage side lift to maintain knife edge. A fighter won't.
     
  15. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    15,184
    Likes Received:
    2,027
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Public Safety Automotive Technician
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Home Page:
    It's a high-G rudder roll basically used during a high AOA manouver
     
  16. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
Loading...

Share This Page