German Aircraft that could deliver The Bomb

FLYBOYJ said:

There is no lack of imagination within this thread!

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There is a shortage of facts on yield. US battlefield tactical nuclear weapons had approximately the same yield as a 4 ton cookie with nuclear fall out. That is only going to annoy people like they were never annoyed before.

pinehilljoe said:

There have been threads on the Lancaster's ability to drop the Bomb. The Black Lancaster's were trained as a back up for the Bomb delivery. If Germany had developed a Bomb, what aircraft could have delivered a 5000 kg device?

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He 177B, Ju 390, Me 264, and a modified Bv 238 could all have probably been able to.

GrauGeist said:

First, we have to look at the logistics based on what actually happened.
The U.S. had an entire composite wing of bombers all similarly outfitted. This was not one or two aircraft, but several dozen.

This alone would exclude quite a few German types, as they either did not have that many or could not produce enough in time to create a comparable operation.

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Yours is an irrelevant objection.. Operation Silverplate was originally conceived as a small unit of just three B-29 aircraft, but they found Muroc test facility was too small to provide support for just three aircraft so they requisitioned 25 aircraft so they could justify taking over Wendover Airbase. It was not a mission requirement at all.

Peter Brill a Luftwaffe pilot who trained for the New York bombing mission revealed in a 2005 interview that nine aircraft were especially converted with enlarged bomb bays for the 76 Zentner Atomic bomb

Next, we have to ask who they were going to bomb?
The U.S. simply cannot be done. Then who?
Britain? That won't stop the war (it may slow them down, but not stop them).
The Soviets? If you try that, you better have more than three like the U.S. did, because the Red Army will keep coming - Stalingrad may as well have been nuked for all it did to stop the Russians.

So to what end would a German atomic bomb have been any good?

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You simply don't know enough about the proposed mission, the aircraft involved, or operational plans to write it off so casually, claiming that it could not be done. You don't know that.

The logical choice would have been to bomb London or Liverpool first, knocking out the logistics chain supporting the invasion of France. Then likely Hitler could have threatened the same outcome for Russia unless
Stalin surrendered. Wiping London off the map would have toppled Churchill's Government
Performed the other way around:

Dropping a nuke on New York first would have toppled support among the US public and revived isolationist sentiment.

Likewise what was the point of bombing Hiroshima?
Japan was militarily defeated and cut off from fuel supplies in 1945. Attacks by carrier aircraft would have been sufficient to pound Japan into submission.

Propellorhead said:

Yours is an irrelevant objection.. Operation Silverplate was originally conceived as a small unit of just three B-29 aircraft, but they found Muroc test facility was too small to provide support for just three aircraft so they requisitioned 25 aircraft so they could justify taking over Wendover Airbase. It was not a mission requirement at all.

Peter Brill a Luftwaffe pilot who trained for the New York bombing mission revealed in a 2005 interview that nine aircraft were especially converted with enlarged bomb bays for the 76 Zentner Atomic bomb




You simply don't know enough about the proposed mission, the aircraft involved, or operational plans to write it off so casually, claiming that it could not be done. You don't know that.

The logical choice would have been to bomb London or Liverpool first, knocking out the logistics chain supporting the invasion of France. Then likely Hitler could have threatened the same outcome for Russia unless
Stalin surrendered. Wiping London off the map would have toppled Churchill's Government
Performed the other way around:

Dropping a nuke on New York first would have toppled support among the US public and revived isolationist sentiment.

Likewise what was the point of bombing Hiroshima?
Japan was militarily defeated and cut off from fuel supplies in 1945. Attacks by carrier aircraft would have been sufficient to pound Japan into submission.



View attachment 652747

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This entire reply is irrelevant...

Propellorhead said:

Yours is an irrelevant objection.. Operation Silverplate was originally conceived as a small unit of just three B-29 aircraft, but they found Muroc test facility was too small to provide support for just three aircraft so they requisitioned 25 aircraft so they could justify taking over Wendover Airbase. It was not a mission requirement at all.

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Not quite -

If you knew anything about Muroc and the surrounding area, especially during the war years, there was a ton of training being done at the base and surrounding areas as well as a sizable civilian population. Muroc was huge and had the adjoining dry lake bed which was eventually turned into axillary and emergency landing areas. What Mojave didn't have was absolute security as the base actually sat somewhat in a valley there there was higher ground to the south where you can see a great portion of the base. To the north was Mohave Marine Corp base which had over 8,000 people based there. Muroc it self had around 20,000 and to the west was War Eagle Field, which had at least 1,000 people there between students, instructors, mechanics and support personnel. The surrounding areas had another 20 - 30,000 civilians spread out over the Antelope Valley. There was plenty of manpower and resources to erect any required support facilities needed.

To maintain mission security, the 509th Composite Group was formed to be a self sufficient until to not only support the direct mission, but to provide administrative support to the entire unit. It was also made to be transportable. Wendover was perfect as during the war years it was extremely isolated with Salt Lake City, the only major city in the area being over 120 miles away.

Propellorhead said:

Likewise what was the point of bombing Hiroshima? Japan was militarily defeated and cut off from fuel supplies in 1945. Attacks by carrier aircraft would have been sufficient to pound Japan into submission.

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Now that is as wacky as some of your conspiracy theory cool aid you've been pushing. It's been well documented that Japan, despite the continual aerial bombardment of it's territory, was not going to willingly accept an unconditional surrender. Before the Japanese Emperor decided to end the war, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki wanted to see one more massive land battle to save face, and he was one of the more moderate leaders. LeMay by his own admittance was running out of cities to firebomb and in Ed Jablownski's book "Wings of Fire" it was documented that Japan still had several thousand combat aircraft still serviceable. Even with the resistance experienced on Okinawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Tarawa, there were still plans to invade Japan, and it's well documented those in charge were not looking forward to an invasion.

The atomic bombings put an end to that and saved over a million lives.

So please, if you want to continue to post speculative conspiracy theories (that I find mainly humorously entertaining) please refrain from the revisionist BS that I not only find ignorant but insulting to those who died in the Pacific trying to wrestle control away from the Japanese as well as the many families who would have had family members participating in a blood bath (Including mine).

Propellerhead - just looked at your website. Naziabomb

Is this you (Simon Gunson), starting this thread?....

I've never read the book - no intention, but is this now a commonly held belief - the Germans detonated nuclear devices?!



(From a 2021 'Bookazine')

The Germans did experience the world's first nuclear accident, though, with the Leipzig L-IV incident.

That much is true.

Propellorhead said:

Peter Brill a Luftwaffe pilot who trained for the New York bombing mission revealed in a 2005 interview that nine aircraft were especially converted with enlarged bomb bays for the 76 Zentner Atomic bomb

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I don't have the (Spanish?) book that was the result of Brill's interview.
But is this accurate? Ultimately there's little of Brill in the book?

Hey Propellorhead,

Are you aware that the "76 Zentner Atomic bomb" and the stories of the Germans setting off atomic bombs during WWII are entirely fictitious?

Also, I can tell you from a physics perspective that the "Pinch" design - supposedly patented by Schumann & Trinks in WWII - would not be able to accomplish what is claimed.

Hey guys, where's the pitcher of Kool-ade? I need to wet my whistle.

Sorry man, we finished it. The big party at the secret base in AntArctica.

Simply put, Germany was incapable of developing an atomic bomb during World War II. They did not have the people. They did not have the cooperation among the people they did have. They did not have the money. They did not have the laboratory or factory space. Lastly, late in the war, they did not have the power to prevent the Allies from destroying what they did have. Whether Heisenberg or Weizsacker or whomever secretly sabotaged the atomic bomb is immaterial. The industrial and scientific capability of Germany was insufficient for the scope of this project. Thus America dropped the atomic bomb on August 6th, not Germany.

SaparotRob said:

Sorry man, we finished it. The big party at the secret base in AntArctica.

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I was gunna say -- I better dig out the chart and figure out where we're at ...

SaparotRob said:

Sorry man, we finished it. The big party at the secret base in AntArctica.

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Damn you. Damn you all.

I've posted this link before, but it covers in great detail, the German's nuclear program:

GrauGeist said:

I've posted this link before, but it covers in great detail, the German's nuclear program:

German Atomic Bomb Project - Nuclear Museum

“I don't believe a word of the whole thing,” declared Werner Heisenberg, the scientific head of the German nuclear program, after hearing the news that the United States had dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima.Germany began its secret program, called Uranverein, or “uranium club,” in April 1939...

www.atomicheritage.org

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Very informative and a little frightening.

Furthermore, Speer was reluctant to bring up the bomb project with Hitler himself unless he could produce clear results. This led to misinformation and misunderstanding, seen clearly when Hitler suggested to Speer that the bomb "would throw a man off his horse at a distance of over two miles" (Powers 151). Heisenberg's frustrations were evident when, at Farm Hall, he remarked, "The point is that the whole structure of the relationship between the scientist and the state in Germany was such that although we were not 100% anxious to do it, on the other hand we were so little trusted by the state that even if we had wanted to do it, it would not have been easy to get it through."

"Significant work on the German project was halted in June of 1942. The Germans never achieved a successful chain reaction, had no method of enriching uranium, and never seriously considered plutonium as a viable substitute. Heisenberg recalled in his memoir, "The government decided that work on the reactor project must be continued, but only on a modest scale. No orders were given to build atomic bombs" (Powers x). Speer later noted, "We got the view that the development was very much at the beginning… the physicists themselves didn't want to put much into it" (Powers 479), and that "the technical prerequisites for production would take years to develop, two years at the earliest, even provided that the program was given maximum support" (Rhodes 404). German resources were allocated to other priorities."

So much for the reasoning behind that enlarged bomb bay!

And that link is to the Atomic Heritage website - they above all others, are a definitive source (and resource) for nuclear history and research.

Here's a link to the "Alsos Mission" that has further information:


It's all very fascinating, to be honest.

Great article, something funny...

Still others have made the case that the German atomic program to develop a bomb was farther along than most historians have believed and some have alleged that Diebner's team conducted the first successful nuclear weapon test of some type (employing hollow charges for ignition) of nuclear-related device in Ohrdruf, Thuringia on 4 March 1945. The recent discovery of over 126,000 barrels of nuclear waste buried over 2000 feet in an abandoned salt mine near Hanover, Germany in 2011 has created further controversy surrounding the extent of the German atomic bomb program.

When you Google search that incident, you find some reports about Nazi nuclear waste, but this report...

In 1965, the extraction of potash salt in the Asse stopped. After it was shut down, the nuclear waste was officially put there for "research purposes" until the end of the 1970s. But in reality, the mine was a repository.