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DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Do you think an U-Boot is going to pull right up to the dock in Anchorage, and the men are just going to get off and walk onto the dock followed by the cheers of the liberated Anchoraginians?
I would think the best cover would be of a Russian or Norwiegan whaling ship, putting into Alaska for supplies. Some old fishing boat aquired in Mexico or South America could be disguised as a whaling sloop. {Russia has ships in the Bering Sea, Norway had ships operating in the Antarctic, until the raiders showed up there}
Freebird
Quote: "The Allies also knew to some extent about the "Synarchist" movement, but there is less danger of Enigma decoding because they would not be sending "black ops" instructions to the machine in the Mexico city embassy, these orders would all be given by hand to the operatives."
Bit farfetshed, Germans had almost absolute trust on Enigma, so they would have used it. On the other hand I cannot recall the system Abwehr used, so I cannot state that as a fact and anyway not all Enigma systems were solved in late 41. So IMHO right thing to do is to assume that Germans used their normal system for sending black ops instructions.
Juha
Errr Adler, IIRC the plan was to board an Allied cargo ship with some crates labelled with all kinds of spanish sh*t containing the equipment, and then when Anchorage was reached they'd drive it off the boat. I see problems there.
Soren said:As to your plan, are you proposing a German cargo ship on its own travelling the northen route to drop off the commandos just outside Anchorage ??
Soren
to my knowledge U-boats never went through Vilkitsky, even when they were ordered to do so, in 44. Sept. was probably best time to try in that year or KM was incompetent.
And the more eastern area between New Siberian Is and Wrangler Is was worst stretch in 40 for Komet IIRC. 1942 it was area around Cape Chelyuskin that was worst ice-wise.
So to my understanding no U-boat ever got into Laptev Sea, correct me if I'm wrong. To get at one end of icebound straight isn't same than be able to travel through it. For example if one gets to Harmaja (lighthouse and pilot station off Helsinki) in normal winter doesn't mean that one necessarily is able to sail to Helsinki without help.
Juha
I think I made it quite clear, nearly ten times, that they would get out of the Uboat and into rubber rafts a kilometer or so from the shore and some 10 km from the target area.
Soren said:The way I understand Freebird'a idea they would board a foreign cargo ship disguised obviously, with spanish crates filled with their equipment and then just drive it off the ship in what'ever port was the goal.
Roger that, but the question is how do you land the men then ? As I understood it you wanted them to land in the harbour itself, which I find extremely problematic.
Roger that, but the question is how do you land the men then ? As I understood it you wanted them to land in the harbour itself, which I find extremely problematic.
There are many small fishing ports/fishing villages etc close to Anchorage, it would not seem out of place for a whaling/fishing ship to land to get supplies. Your team could probably walk right off the dock in the middle of the night carring their gear. There would be no "passport customs control" or any guards at all in the minor ports, once the ship had landed. i would assume that you would do this in 1941 though, not mid '42.
Why would they get on an allied cargo ship? Why cant they get on a ship from Argentina or how about this...
I know this is a revolutionary idea! They get on a German ship that is named something else and flagged from a different country....
Not necessarily. I dont think I would go the northern rought. I would go through less hospitable waters to the south.
A. There is no need to go through the northern passage. You are making it more difficult than it needs to be.
B. Why Alaska? As others have put out, there is no need or reason to go there (except that it is the most beautiful place on earth!)
C. They would never acomplish a mission in Alaska, no matter how much you think the uber troops would.
D. The mission would be pointless as I pointed out above.
All in all this discussion is rather pointless...
Wrong. Taking the Northern ruote would cut A LOT of distance time off the trip.
Soren said:Remember it would be done at the same time as the attacks in the US Canada to achieve as big a terrorfying effect as possible, letting the US public know that you can strike at them everywhere any time if you wish. Defeating your enemy phsycologically has its benefits.
Soren said:Spare me the patronising and snide remarks plz. I guess all of us operating for a over a month in Norway during the winter should all have perished and never achieved a single of our objectives according to you Adler ?? You mock us.
Soren said:Then leave it be Adler.
I believe that Alaska was run by the military or it was a military zoneThere are many small fishing ports/fishing villages etc close to Anchorage, it would not seem out of place for a whaling/fishing ship to land to get supplies. Your team could probably walk right off the dock in the middle of the night carring their gear. There would be no "passport customs control" or any guards at all in the minor ports, once the ship had landed. i would assume that you would do this in 1941 though, not mid '42.
Adler let me tell you how I took it as you mocking us:
You claim that "My Uber soldiers" wouldn't achieve a single mission in Alaska. "Uber soldiers" Adler ??
Soren said:Adler have you ever heard of the Sirius patrol team in Greenland ? I have aquaintences who have been there and they operate(d) for months far away from any civilization in Greenland, which mind you is a heck of a lot rougher than Alaska to survive in. (An interesting OT note; Their main weapons are K98k's rechambered in 7.62NATO)
Soren said:So by claiming that commandos (My Über commandos just as the cherry on top) haven't got a chance to achieve a single mission in Alaska is mocking. Ok you didn't mean to mock, fair enough, I'm also only telling you this cause I found it strange for you to claim such stuff in light off what I know has been and is being achieved by the former and todays spec ops members.
Soren said:Oh and when I say "Then leave it be" I mean: If you don't wish to participate, cause you have every right to do so, then why bother ?
That's funny considering what is written about it Glider. The German Uboats apparently DID operate UNDER the ice and enjoyed considerable success.
no matter how much you think the uber troops would
Soren
Quote: "The German Uboats U-302, U-354 U-711 trailed a Soviet convoy straight into the middle of the Vilkitsky strait, attacked and sunk two ships. If it was possible to actually engage in battle right smack in the middle of the Vilkitsky strait then you can be sure they could slip right under the ice and into the Laptev sea if necessary."
Now once again you imagination ruins your ability to understand the text you read.
Now from Rohwer's Axis Submarine Successes 1939-1945 the sinking by U-302 was 75.37 N / 89.10 E and that of U 354 75.15 N / 84.30 E and the Vilkitsky strait is past 100 E. If these numerical expressions are too much to you, please go to U-boat.net they have red spots marked on maps where the sinkings happened and they are way west of what you claim!!
So please. Next time read texts carefully and try to understand them before making wrong claims. So you don't waste others time and also you give more adult impression on yourself.
Juha