German torpedo's

[Jan7]

Info of Japanese Torpedoes in PDF documents:
REPORTS OF THE U.S. NAVAL TECHNICAL MISSION TO JAPAN

JM-200-D

0-01-1 Japanese Torpedoes and Tubes-Article 1, Ship and Kaiten Torpedoes 446
0-01-2 Japanese Torpedoes and Tubes-Article 2, Aircraft Torpedoes 61
0-01-3 Japanese Torpedoes and Tubes-Article 3, Above-Water Tubes 20




Jan.

 

[bruno_]

I'm looking for info about the ToKG-1B. It was a device used on German Torpedo Bombers (J88 for sure) for setting up torpedo(es) control parameters just before launching it(them). It would be nice to get its manual in order to fully understand the way it operated.
As far as I know this device allowed the operator to set the torpedo cruise speed, the running depth and. Moreover, the input of an estimation of the target speed and "angle off bow" allowed the device to calculate and show the deflection angle for launching the torpedo. But I'm not sure my info are correct.

It would be very interesting also to understand if such a device could set up (at least in semi-automatic way) and trim the torpedo governors so to perform an "angled shot" that is, once the torpedo reached the water (and after a short stabilizing transient), it could turn of a given amount of degree rather than cruising in the same direction of its aerial flight.

As usual, thanks in advance for any info/doc about the subject

 

[parsifal]

The Germans I believe tested Type 91 torpedoes and rejected them, apparently on the basis of the high levels of maintainence required.

There were two principal types of aerial torpedo in use in Germany the F5b, which was based on the Norwegian derived F5, and the F5W which was patterned after the Italian Fiume Type "W" torpedo. In many ways the Italian type was superior, being more reliable and closely comparable in performance

 

[HoHun]

Hi Bruno,

>I'm looking for info about the ToKG-1B. It was a device used on German Torpedo Bombers (J88 for sure) for setting up torpedo(es) control parameters just before launching it(them). It would be nice to get its manual in order to fully understand the way it operated.
As far as I know this device allowed the operator to set the torpedo cruise speed, the running depth and. Moreover, the input of an estimation of the target speed and "angle off bow" allowed the device to calculate and show the deflection angle for launching the torpedo. But I'm not sure my info are correct.

Many years back, Jet+Prop published a photograph of such a device. I think it was included in a letter to the editor so that there was noch much information (because the writer asked for information on the device), but from the control panel it was clear that one could set (from memory, so I'm not 100% certain):

- target speed
- torpedo speed
- relative target angle (by a rotary knob in the shape of a little ship!
- target evasion "towards" or "away" from the firer by a little switch

I think this device is similar to what the British used (though maybe not in every detail), as in "Barracuda Pilot" (I believe) the author describes a similar prodedure, and even training for torpedo runs in a Link trainer converted for visual flight and attacks on ships!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[bruno_]

I've got this link yesterday
Schaltkaesten

There are some interesting images:

The first one shows the control panel

The second images shows also german written explainations

Some parts are "self-explaining" but other details seem less "intuitive", so Ho Hun, please could you kindly translate them (when and if you have time of course)? Sorry, but my english is poor but my german is even worst

 

[HoHun]

Hi Bruno,

Schaltkaesten

Good find! Highly interesting Looks a bit different than the one I remember from Jet + Prop ... hm, must have been more than ten years ago, how am I ever going to find that issue? :-/

>Some parts are "self-explaining" but other details seem less "intuitive", so Ho Hun, please could you kindly translate them (when and if you have time of course)?

Yellow rings: "The two displays for 'Depth (m)' are indicator devices for the running depth of the starboard and port air torpedos."

Orange rings: "2 flip switches for the adjustment of the running depth (it was possible to adjust the running depth by pushing them to the left or to the right)"

Grey rings: "Indicators for the angle shot of of the air torpedos"

Blue rings: "Release buttons (trigger buttons) for the port and starboard air torpedos"

Green ring: "Outer scale: Angle off (2 x 0 - 18), inner scale: (knots opponent speed) Speed of the target ship!"

Red ring: "Small turning knob: Adjustment knob for the air torpedo running speed"

Light blue ring: "Scale for shooting angle and shooting angle display"

White ring: "Indicator light for readiness to release"

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[bruno_]

Hi Henning,
faster than light! Thanks a lot for your translation.

As far as I can understand it is clear that the inputs from the operator were:
a) Target speed and Angle (Angle Off Bow, I presume)
b) Torpedo(es) cruising speed and Depth.

"Hidden" inputs could be aircraft height and speed but, of course, this is not apparent from the pictures and I can imagine it, just on the basis that these info were available from the aircraft instruments and the deflection angle calculation needed such data.

Based on these parameters (and on some assumptions about target distance that was important mainly for "short distance" shots), the ToKG-1B could reasonably be able to calculate and show deflection angles.

For "direct" attacks (that is the torpedo will follow the direction imparted from the aircraft during both the aerial and the submarine phases) the deflection angle indicator showed the result thus allowing the operator to tell the pilot what to do. It seems once again reasonable that the pilot, using a "torpedosight", could properly aim accordingly and tell the operator when pushing the torpedo(es) release button(s).

But if this was "all", then what was the purpose of the grey circled stuff ("indicators for the angle shot of the air torpedos")? Moreover their aspect suggests some kind of "binary" information (yes/not or on/off torpedo available (not yet launched)/absent (already launched) or something like). And finally the left one had a different "orientation" with respect to the right one. Where these indicators linked to the possibility of performing angled shots (once in the water the torpedo could turn by ToKG defined deflection angle)? Which was their actual purpose?

 

[bruno_]

A step back on italian airborne torpedoes.
In a previous post I said no anti-roll embedded control was adopted on these torpedoes. I've got some more info and I've realized I was wrong.
Some official notes of Regia Aeronautica of 1941 report differently on the subject: There was a link between the gyros and the ailerons regulating the flight phase of the torpedoes. Moreover I was personally able to take this somewhat self-explaining "shot" in Vigna di Valle Museum.

 

[Micdrow]

Great shot there Bruno, you may find this link interesting to if you havent seen it yet.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/weapons-systems-tech/italian-torpedo-s-11487.html

 

[bruno_]

Yes, I'd already got this doc. Thanks again

 

[bruno_]

I've recently got further stuff about torpedo bombing

Here is an image showing (I presume) data for angled torpedo bombing.

According to table and to the following sketch it seems quite reasonable that angled torpedo bombing was in use in Luftwaffe.

Infact, here a picture showing te basics of angled shot and a new picture of ToKG with some further explaination

@Henning: once again, I would be grateftul if you (again if and when you find comfortable with this request) could translate from German to Englishm the texts in the table and in the images, in order to help me (us) in better understanding the details behind this Luftwaffe Torpedo bombing device and the attack schemes that were possible thanks to it.
As usual, thanks in advance.

 

[tlbates]

HI, hear is a link to many manuals of ww2 us torpedos Navy Documents

 

[HoHun]

Hi Bruno,

>@Henning: once again, I would be grateftul if you (again if and when you find comfortable with this request) could translate from German to Englishm the texts in the table and in the images, in order to help me (us) in better understanding the details behind this Luftwaffe Torpedo bombing device and the attack schemes that were possible thanks to it.

Oops, sorry, I somehow lost sight of this ... here comes the belated translation:

"94 Position of the torpedo aimer in a He 111H-5. 1 Stowable air torpedo sight (flipped out), 2 torpedo-aircraft shooting angle computer TFSchuRe (December 1941).

95 Air torpedo drop and aiming triangle. Description in the text.

96 Operation pnael of the ToKG 1B, next to it the connectivity of the ToKG system in block schematics.

1 Housing, 2 Adjustment for air torpedo speed, 3 slit knob for 2, 4 position angle scale, 5 scale for enemy speed, 6 Lever in ship shape for adjustment of enemy position angle, 7 device attachment lock, 8 curled knob for enemy speed adjustment, 9, 12 indicators for angle shot starboard/port air torpedo, 10, 11 Launch button starbaord, port air torpedo, 13, 15 tumble switch for running depth adjustment starboard, port air torpedo, 14, 16 indicator device for starboard, port air torpedo, 17, 20 cable connection for starboard, port air torpedo, 18 scale for shooting angle, 19 indicator for shooting angle, 21 indicator light for launch readiness, 22 spread ("fan") launch adjustment, 23, 24 saefty switch for starboard air torpedo (launch button 10) and port air torpedo (launch button 11), 25, 26 block schmeatics shooting angle computer and sensor, 27 28 block schmeatics angle setting device starboard, port air torpedo (1943)"

Any questions, just ask! "Spread" or "fan" is supposed to described several torpedos fired on slightly diverging courses to increase the probability (or number) of hits - not sure if I managed to find the correct English term.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[bruno_]

Hi Henning,
thanks a lot again . For sure the position of my request in the post layout wasn't the best one to draw the reader's attention

 

[Jan7]

.....

"Spread" or "fan" is supposed to described several torpedos fired on slightly diverging courses to increase the probability (or number) of hits - not sure if I managed to find the correct English term.

Hi Henning, Spread, in spanish "Abanico" is habitually the term correct. You depicted the method perfectly !!






Jan.

 

[JtD]

Where is the picture of the ToKG from?

Is there more info available on that item?

 

[undu562]

Hello! The original pic of the ToKG is from a private collection in Germany , I am currently restoring the side panel for the ToKG , there were 2 panels placed on both side of fuselage to adjust the torpedo mechanic. I will add some pics.

Best U

 

[davebender]

Looking at those pictures I think you have a tough job ahead.

 

[parsifal]

Im gobsmacked

 

[bruno_]

Maybe the attachment is helpful.