Gun recoil?

[Thunderbolt56]

I've been doing a good bit of reading lately (always do right after Christmas as my family finally listens and gets me some of the selected reading material on my "list") and in reading 2 of Eric Hammel's books Aces Against Germany and Aces Against Japan, I've realized that recoil from firing all your guns at once was a real concern for many (especially in low-speed combat on the deck) because the recoil was so pronounced that it could actually contribute to a severe stall.

One pilot of a P-51 stated that firing all 6 guns was the equivalent of reducing horsepower by 400!

This brings me to a somewhat rhetorical question with 2 parts;

A. To what extent is this phenomenon modelled in IL2?

and

B. How well do you think it will be modelled in newer-gen sims like SoW and RoF?

Obviously, the recoil from a bank of 6x .50's will be much higher than twin .30 Vickers like will be in RoF, but all things considered, it would still be substantial when flying on the edge of departure.

Thoughts?

 

[BombTaxi]

I don't think it is very significant in IL-2 - although if you are flying something with Mk108s, it does seem that you start bouncing around the sky when you open fire

I am almost certain that the phenomena is under modeled on the tank-busters, especially the Stuka. I have read that Hurricane IID's with 40mm 'S' guns slowed down by as much as 40mph when they fired - but the Stuka doesnt seem to have a problem with it's 37mm BK's.

Having said all of that, I think a force-feedback joystick would settle the question. I don't use one, and I would suppose that the deceleration bought on by firing would be felt rather than observed. So the game may well be modeling it without the virtual pilot ever being aware of it.

 

[Nightshifter]

I do think it is modeled in IL2; e.g. with the engine switched off before you take off give the guns a good burst and you will notice that you move backwards and also in the air (more noticable with wing cannons), if one of your cannons becomes damaged and you fire I certainly notice a sway to one side which isn't apparent when both cannons are working and it makes it very hard to hit an aircraft with one cannon out of action due to this sway.

I specifically notice it in the Hurricane IIc with those 4 cannons and even in the P40E when one side takes a hit and knocks out the guns on 1 wing.

 

[SoD Stitch]

I'm sure it is (was?) a concern with any a/c, especially the more heavily-armed a/c (Fw-190A8/R8?); the only a/c I know of that was very affected by gun recoil was the A-10: if you fired the big 30mm GAU-8/A cannon for more than a few seconds, the a/c would actually cease flying!

 

[GrauGeist]

I have noticed weapons recoil in various machines, the larger the weapon, the higher degree of recoil.

When I'm dialing in on an adversary, I'm not really looking at my airspeed, but maybe I will next time I run a mission.

Where I really notice recoil, is when I'm running my Bf110G2/R4 and open up with all of the foreward weapons. At that point, the nose of the '110 jumps all over the place, so it's best to use short bursts.

I posted this screenshot a while back, but it illustrates the firepower of the G2!

 

[sturmer]

i do know that there is a small recoill that makes ur plane go back a few feet, but this is when im standing still on the airfield. i love to try out my guns before i get airborne. but im not sure if that has a same impact while flying.

 

[GrauGeist]

There is rellevent recoil factored into the game. To what degree of accuracy, I'm not sure.

If a person has a He111 on the ground for example, and fires the nose MG, the aircraft may shudder a little, but will remain stationary. So the game consider's the He111's mass in relation to the caliber and force of discharge of the nose MG.

The same goes for my aformentioned Bf110G2 with the additional cannon/MG. Sitting stationary, the nose group will move the Bf110 backwards, but add to that, the twin Mk108s, and the '110 really rolls backwards!

Next time I have IL-2 loaded, I'll run a few tests and see what the effect of recoil has on the airspeed of the aircraft.

 

[Amsel]

I was flying the Hurricane IIb today and noticed a change in speed when I fired the mg's.

 

[GrauGeist]

I ran a quick-mission with my Bf110G2, and in level flight at 350KPh I fired all foreward weapons for about 1 second. It reduced my airspeed by 20KPh.

My Fw190A-8 with additional Mk108 wing cannon lost a little over 10KPh with a one second burst of all weapons.

Oddly enough, I checked my speed when I fired a volley with my Ju87G, and the speed reduction was perhaps 2KPh. I'm just guessing here, but maybe the 37mm can absorbe recoil better?

So Oleg's people did at least factor in the recoil effects of weapons. Just how accurate it is, I'm not sure, but at least they went to the trouble to factor that into the flight models.

 

[VALENGO]

Airplanes with large nose cannon dont allow more that one or two shots before start acting like crazies, going from left to right and making impossible to aim for a new shot.
You can fly at level, constant speed, set game speed x8, start shooting (don´t forget set unlimited ammo) and watch the final spped you get as shooting, with this method you can have an idea about comparative recoil between different airplanes.