Hellcat F6F 5

[Chip B.]

Greets -

I am building Hasegawa's F6F 3/5 1/32. I have a fairly comprehensive research library, but cannot find a detailed photo of how and where the hydraulic brake line is inserted behind the wheel.

A photo would be best, but a description of the appearance will be gratefully received! This build is promised to the Eisenhower Park WWII Museum, and I wish to get it right.

Thank you!
Chip B.

 

[Joe Fragala]

Chip, I volunteer at CAF So Cal (Camarillo Airport). Last weekend, my son and I were part of a team changing wheels on their Hellcat. I have uploaded a picture to help. Let me know if that is what you need. If not, let me know and I can take a better picture next time we go. Joe

 

[Joe Fragala]

Hey Chip, Was at CAF Camarillo again Saturday (working on F8F-2 ignition again). As we were leaving we walked by the Hellcat and I took another picture for you.

 

[Chip B.]

Hi Joe -

Brilliant! My focus is the connection of the hydraulic (brake?) line attachment at the wheel. I am using a PE part fitted on the axel between the back of the wheel and the oleo/ scissors. The part is round and smaller than the wheel. There are many evenly spaced holes around the circumference of the piece, looking like the brake rotor on the front wheel of a motorcycle.

The piece I am seeing where the attach point of the brake line inserts looks nothing like this! It seems to be more of a flat round plate with an insertion point for the line.

As any builder would do, i'll fudge it. I can't thank you enough!

Also typical of a builder, I have another question, this concerning paint schemes for the Hellcats. Did any sport just the deep ocean blue on top and an off-white belly without the medium blue between the two colors on the fuselage?

Thanks again! I hope I will be able to return the favor one day!
Chip B.

 

[Joe Fragala]

Hi Joe -

Brilliant! My focus is the connection of the hydraulic (brake?) line attachment at the wheel. I am using a PE part fitted on the axel between the back of the wheel and the oleo/ scissors. The part is round and smaller than the wheel. There are many evenly spaced holes around the circumference of the piece, looking like the brake rotor on the front wheel of a motorcycle.

The piece I am seeing where the attach point of the brake line inserts looks nothing like this! It seems to be more of a flat round plate with an insertion point for the line.

As any builder would do, i'll fudge it. I can't thank you enough!

Also typical of a builder, I have another question, this concerning paint schemes for the Hellcats. Did any sport just the deep ocean blue on top and an off-white belly without the medium blue between the two colors on the fuselage?

Thanks again! I hope I will be able to return the favor one day!
Chip B.

Chris,
I am glad the photos helped you. Best of luck with the rest of your build. Let me know if you need anything else.
As far as the paint schemes go, I am far from an expert. My interest is wrenching on the planes. I am lucky enough to live close to the CAF Museum in Camarillo and have some training on maintenance of general aviation aircraft. I looked at some photos I have taken of the two "Cats" at our CAF and they are both solid dark blue all the way around. I would look for a CAF historian to find out more info. Those guys have insane knowledge about the planes.

Best, Joe

 

[Chip B.]

Chris,
I am glad the photos helped you. Best of luck with the rest of your build. Let me know if you need anything else.
As far as the paint schemes go, I am far from an expert. My interest is wrenching on the planes. I am lucky enough to live close to the CAF Museum in Camarillo and have some training on maintenance of general aviation aircraft. I looked at some photos I have taken of the two "Cats" at our CAF and they are both solid dark blue all the way around. I would look for a CAF historian to find out more info. Those guys have insane knowledge about the planes.

Best, Joe

Thanks Joe. Next time you're there i'd be interested in the color of the undercarriage and wheel wells. I believe they commonly were the same color as the belly. I'm almost done with modding the landing gear and have the gear done in a very nice looking gray white. It should take the weathering nicely. I am hoping the dark ocean blue with the white underside will be historically accurate as I won't go with my planned paint scheme if it is not.

I've attached a pic or two. I'm not good at this, so sorry if I've screwed the pooch in my attempt at uploading. I welcome criticism of my build, but please be gentle with me - my first time...

Thanks Again Joe -
Chip

 

[Joe Fragala]

View attachment 483372

View attachment 483371



Thanks Joe. Next time you're there i'd be interested in the color of the undercarriage and wheel wells. I believe they commonly were the same color as the belly. I'm almost done with modding the landing gear and have the gear done in a very nice looking gray white. It should take the weathering nicely. I am hoping the dark ocean blue with the white underside will be historically accurate as I won't go with my planned paint scheme if it is not.

I've attached a pic or two. I'm not good at this, so sorry if I've screwed the pooch in my attempt at uploading. I welcome criticism of my build, but please be gentle with me - my first time...

Thanks Again Joe -
Chip

Hey! picture uploading works and they look great to me. I like the way the fins look on the engine. I see what you mean about the axle, brakes, wheel hubs; they look very little like the full size. I'll take more pictures on Saturday. My guess however is that the paint of our birds is not the same as original. I can ask one of the guys who first bought/restored the planes (the Barber brothers, Gary and Steve).

joe

 

[Chip B.]

Hey! picture uploading works and they look great to me. I like the way the fins look on the engine. I see what you mean about the axle, brakes, wheel hubs; they look very little like the full size. I'll take more pictures on Saturday. My guess however is that the paint of our birds is not the same as original. I can ask one of the guys who first bought/restored the planes (the Barber brothers, Gary and Steve).

joe

Joe, you are one valuable resource!

Did you mean to say the 'Barber' brothers!? I wonder if they are related to my family. My Barber family history finds most of us settling in the New England area, New Jersey to Maine, and West to about Ohio. Cool!

The fins are super easy to do. I'll be glad to describe it to you...

Anyway, thank you for your comments. I'm learning again. Sure is a ton of new material and techniques I'd never even imagined. I mean, chipping medium? Hairspray, salt and Elmer's Glue as a way to get beautiful paint flaking and rust effects? WTF?!! But, I have been gleefully giving the charge card a serious workout. Amazon, MicroMark and a bunch of others send me Thank-You notes...

All the best, Joe. Thanks again -
Chip Barber

 

[Joe Fragala]

Joe, you are one valuable resource!

Did you mean to say the 'Barber' brothers!? I wonder if they are related to my family. My Barber family history finds most of us settling in the New England area, New Jersey to Maine, and West to about Ohio. Cool!

The fins are super easy to do. I'll be glad to describe it to you...

Anyway, thank you for your comments. I'm learning again. Sure is a ton of new material and techniques I'd never even imagined. I mean, chipping medium? Hairspray, salt and Elmer's Glue as a way to get beautiful paint flaking and rust effects? WTF?!! But, I have been gleefully giving the charge card a serious workout. Amazon, MicroMark and a bunch of others send me Thank-You notes...

All the best, Joe. Thanks again -
Chip Barber

Chip,

Happy Monday. thanks for the compliments. Sounds like you are learning some interesting techniques. Good stuff.
I happened to see our unit historian, Ron Fleishman on Saturday. I asked him about the original paint schemes on the Hellcat and Bearcat. He confirmed that there were only two colors used, the top blue and the lower grey. There was no medium blue used in between. However, they did not have a sharp line delineating the two colors; they are faded from one to the other. That may look like a third color is used. Our Cats are painted a single color top and bottom so I cannot take a picture and show you how the color fade looks.

Yes, Gary and Steve Barber. Both great guys. I understand they were instrumental in getting the SoCal wing started. Steve mentioned they grew up in So Cal. Small world wrt names.

best, joe

 

[Chip B.]

Chip,

Happy Monday. thanks for the compliments. Sounds like you are learning some interesting techniques. Good stuff.
I happened to see our unit historian, Ron Fleishman on Saturday. I asked him about the original paint schemes on the Hellcat and Bearcat. He confirmed that there were only two colors used, the top blue and the lower grey. There was no medium blue used in between. However, they did not have a sharp line delineating the two colors; they are faded from one to the other. That may look like a third color is used. Our Cats are painted a single color top and bottom so I cannot take a picture and show you how the color fade looks.

Yes, Gary and Steve Barber. Both great guys. I understand they were instrumental in getting the SoCal wing started. Steve mentioned they grew up in So Cal. Small world wrt names.

best, joe

Thanks Joe. I can't say that often enough! If you can stand it, I have another question. I can now see the pics you sent clearly, and it appears the inside of the wheel well cover attached to the landing gear is Deep Sea Blue, what I believe is the top blue described by Mr. Fleishman. It also appears that the landing gear is the lower gray. I have read the gear and well were often the same color as the bottom. This means my plan is sound. I am hoping this is accurate as this is the paint scheme I wish to use on my build - deep blue top and a white/gray bottom. I suppose I can do the entire skin deep blue, top and bottom, with the gear still gray/white, assuming this is accurate.

Thanks again, Joe. If permitted by the museum I would like to acknowledge you assistance with the historical accuracy of the colors. Would this be ok with you?

Best
Chip

 

[DarrenW]

Nice Job Chip! I plan to also make another Hasegawa Hellcat soon. I made one as a kid but of course I kind of thrown it together so 40 years later I want to do a better job. There's a lot of details they got right and a lot they got wrong but at least the wrong stuff can be modified without too much trouble. Your obviously put great work into modifying the main landing gear.

You have gotten some great information so far but I just want to ensure that I'm understanding the colors you are describing correctly. When you say "original", do you mean first production machines? The USN's aircraft paint scheme in the first year of the war until about the second half of 1943 was ANA 603 non-specular Blue Gray (FS 35189) over ANA 602 Light Gray (FS 36440). The three-color scheme followed (or four, depending how you look at it), being ANA 607 non-specular Sea Blue for top fuselage (FS 35042), ANA 606 semi-gloss Sea Blue (FS 25042) for top of wings/tail plane, ANA 608 non-specular Intermediate Blue (FS 35164) for the fuselage, and ANA 601 Insignia White (FS 37875). Intermediate Blue has a grayish hue to it so it can be construed at times as a variation of a gray tone paint.

Two on-line links that may be helpful as well:

Stof's War Paints Hellcat Page

Grumman F6F Hellcat Early War Camouflage Color and Paint Guide

There was also a lengthy discussion here on the forum concerning early Hellcat colors. Everything you've ever wanted to know about painting a scale model of the F6F is probably there! As you can plainly see, there are many representations of one color and it's quite a task to select one depending on how picky you decide to be:

Paint Question.....Any Help Appreciated

You just don't see the earliest F6f-3s being modeled as much as the later versions (Blue Gray over Light Gray). They make very unique modeling subjects...good luck!

 

[Joe Fragala]

Thanks Joe. I can't say that often enough! If you can stand it, I have another question. I can now see the pics you sent clearly, and it appears the inside of the wheel well cover attached to the landing gear is Deep Sea Blue, what I believe is the top blue described by Mr. Fleishman. It also appears that the landing gear is the lower gray. I have read the gear and well were often the same color as the bottom. This means my plan is sound. I am hoping this is accurate as this is the paint scheme I wish to use on my build - deep blue top and a white/gray bottom. I suppose I can do the entire skin deep blue, top and bottom, with the gear still gray/white, assuming this is accurate.

Thanks again, Joe. If permitted by the museum I would like to acknowledge you assistance with the historical accuracy of the colors. Would this be ok with you?

Best
Chip

Chip,

Looks like you are getting some great advice from DarrenW about the history of the color schemes. Let me know if you need any more pictures of hardware.

joe

 

[DarrenW]

Hi Joe,

So how did you get such a exciting job as volunteering with the CAF? I could only dream of being involved with something like that. Does the CAF still travel around the country like they did when I was just a child? I saw them when CAF stood for something less politically correct. At the time they flew out of Texas I believe. I fell in love with their Hellcat they brought to the Airshow near me back in '76. I remember it like it was yesterday.

Those are nice detail shots of the landing gear by the way....

 

[Joe Fragala]

Hi Joe,

So how did you get such a exciting job as volunteering with the CAF? I could only dream of being involved with something like that. Does the CAF still travel around the country like they did when I was just a child? I saw them when CAF stood for something less politically correct. At the time they flew out of Texas I believe. I fell in love with their Hellcat they brought to the Airshow near me back in '76. I remember it like it was yesterday.

Those are nice detail shots of the landing gear by the way....

Darren,

My son and I went to the Wings over Camarillo Airshow co-sponsored by the CAF. I met an old friend there who is a member and he highly recommended joining. My two sons and I had the great fortune to be trained for three years by a IA in San Jose. Every Sunday he would train a small group of teens how to repair and maintain general aviation planes. He does this to give back to the community. We went down to CAF and just signed up. After several weeks of paying our dues of voluteering for every small job (sweeping floors, installing compressed air piping, washing hangar floor, dusting planes, etc) we were invited to join the crew of the Yak-3. Crew chief is a professional who is great at involving he crew and training them as needed. We have worked on the Yak, Hellcat, Bearcat and the PT-19.

Just so you know, we pay to volunteer. Almost $300 for an adult and $50-100 for a cadet (teen). CAF is a system of museums of flying planes all around the country. Absolutely everyone we have met so far has been great. Wonderful bunch of people all interested in warbirds. You should look for one near you.
best, joe

 

[DarrenW]

It's a nice thing that you and your son have going there. I will have to look at this a little closer and find out which chapters are near me. Thanks for letting me know how it all works!