Hello all and a question.....

[max_vale]

Hello everyone; I've LONG had an interest in WW2 and the air battles (in particular in the PTO, CBI and MTO...basically, I'm incredicly sick of the 8 trillion books, games, movies, etc. on the ETO ); and I have a question to any and all experts out there....

Does anyone know of Allied Aces who made ace in multiple theatres of operation? I.e. I know James Howard of the AVG (Flying Tigers) is credited (in some places) with shooting down 6 Japanese planes and later 6 kills over Germany (also becoming the only U.S. pilot to win the MOH in the ETO); and John Landers shot down 6.5 Japanese planes in the PTO and later 8 more in the ETO. I believe there are some English and Austrailian pilots who made ace over Europe and later did it again in either the PTO, CBI or MTO.....but I'm not positive.

Anybody have this information ready at hand? Thanks!

-Max

 

[Crimea_River]

Ummm, what's a CBI? And I always thought the MTO was part of the European war. So if you mean Mediterranean, that should open up a few.

 

[fubar57]

China/Burma/India Theatre I believe

 

[Crimea_River]

Works for me. Not seen that TLA before.

 

[Gnomey]

Welcome.

 

[pbehn]

Welcome to the forum, there were many more nationalities than English and Australians flew for the RAF. In the Battle of Britain alone there were at least 13 other non British. nationalities and of course Scots Welsh and Northern Irish from the UK.

 

[Greyman]

The only one that immediately comes to mind for me is 'Wally' McLeod of the RCAF. 8 victories over Northwest Europe and 13 victories over Malta (21 total).

 

[fubar57]

Australian Clive "Killer" Caldwell. Depending on the source, he claimed 22 in North Africa flying the P-40 and 6.5 in the Pacific flying the Spitfire

 

[GrauGeist]

Lt. Col. Louis Curdes, USAAF, DFC (2), Purple Heart, was an ace who flew a P-38 in the MTO and ETO, downing seven Bf109s and a MC.202 before he was shot down.
He was captured but managed to escape and after a brief rest, was assigned to the PTO flying a P-51.
While there, he downed a KI-46 and a USAAF C-47 full of Army nurses about to land at a Japanese held airfield.

His aircraft sported 7 Swastikas, a Fascis, a Hinomaru and a US insignia.

 

[tyrodtom]

I think we'd all like to hear a few more details about the USAAF C-47 shot down .

 

[fubar57]

I had it bookmarked somewhere..........

 

[fubar57]

https://www.truthorfiction.com/bad-angel-pilot-lt-louis-e-curdes-shot-girlfriend-wwii/

 

[GrauGeist]

Here's a good detail of that event with the C-47:
The American WWII Ace Who Shot Down 7 German, 1 Italian, 1 Japanese, And 1 American Plane

 

[max_vale]

Thanks for the replies peoples! I don't know if it's just an American thing; but I know a lot of WW2 historians divide WW2 into 4 major theaters of conflict; ETO (European Theater of Operations: i.e. West and East Fron actions); MTO (Mediterranean Theater of Operations) to include Italy, North Africa, Malta, Greece, Crete, etc.; CBI (China-Burma-India) to include China, Burma, SE Asia, India, etc.; and PTO (Pacific Theater of Operations) which basically covers anything touching the Pacific that isn't on the Asia mainland.

Obviously this leaves some gaps (like the fighting in Iran) or some things that don't make much sense (i.e. Italy IS part of Europe), etc.; but it's a quick 'rule of thumb' many historians (and those of us like me who pretend to be ) use as a 'short-hand'.

Also, I certainly didn't mean to offend anybody by limiting Allied pilots to "English or Australian"; obviously numerous Polish, Czech, New Zealander, Canadian, Irish, South African, etc., etc. pilots flew for the Allies.....as did Russians, French and many, many more. Apologies if that came across all wrong!

I HAD heard of (and forget about) Caldwell; I had NEVER heard of 'Wally' McLeod or Louis Curdes before, thanks for that!

I appreciate all this and LOVE learning new things like this, I appreciate it!

 

[pbehn]

Thanks for the replies peoples! I don't know if it's just an American thing; but I know a lot of WW2 historians divide WW2 into 4 major theaters of conflict; ETO (European Theater of Operations: i.e. West and East Fron actions); MTO (Mediterranean Theater of Operations) to include Italy, North Africa, Malta, Greece, Crete, etc.; CBI (China-Burma-India) to include China, Burma, SE Asia, India, etc.; and PTO (Pacific Theater of Operations) which basically covers anything touching the Pacific that isn't on the Asia mainland.

Obviously this leaves some gaps (like the fighting in Iran) or some things that don't make much sense (i.e. Italy IS part of Europe), etc.; but it's a quick 'rule of thumb' many historians (and those of us like me who pretend to be ) use as a 'short-hand'.

Also, I certainly didn't mean to offend anybody by limiting Allied pilots to "English or Australian"; obviously numerous Polish, Czech, New Zealander, Canadian, Irish, South African, etc., etc. pilots flew for the Allies.....as did Russians, French and many, many more. Apologies if that came across all wrong!

I HAD heard of (and forget about) Caldwell; I had NEVER heard of 'Wally' McLeod or Louis Curdes before, thanks for that!

I appreciate all this and LOVE learning new things like this, I appreciate it!

I think RAF pilots were more concerned with Squadrons and battles than theatres. Fighting above France was different from 1940 to 42 and from 44 to 45. Malta changed completely as a theatre during the war and in any case most are "Europe". I don't think an Aussie fighting at Darwin considered himself to be in a Pacific operation any more than Bob Doe thought he was over Northern Europe in the Battle of Britain.

 

[max_vale]

I'm sure pilots from all countries felt the same way....other than perhaps having the 'novelty' of having swastikas/German Crosses AND Rising Sun AND/OR Italian flags on the nose of your plane......this is strictly an interest of mine.

Speaking of which, I also discovered 2 more American pilots who scored victories against all 3 Axis powers to go along with the fascinating story of Louis E. Curdes listed above....though one of them did so only if you include the Spanish Civil War....

'Ajax' Baumler flew as a Mercenary pilot in a Russian squadron during the Spanish Civil War and was credited with shooting down both German and Italian planes in that conflict. He later joined the AVG (though he didn't officially start flying for them until AFTER they disbanded and he joined the follow on 75th Fighter Squadron) and shot down several Japanese planes during WW2. His story is fascinating; a helluva pilot with also a helluva drinking problem.....read up on him on Wikipedia: Albert Baumler - Wikipedia

Also: Levi Chase, who scored victories over German planes AND an Italian plane over North Africa who later also scored victories over Japan.

None of the three made ace against multiple Axis powers; but nonetheless they join the rare company of pilots who scored victories against all 3 Major Axis powers. (Note: The list of pilots who accomplished this is dominated by RAF and RAAF pilots like Caldwell)

 

[GrauGeist]

Sort of a twist to the conversation, but Luftwaffe pilots aboard the German surface cruiser Orion, operated a Nakajima E8N scout plane in the Pacific theater.

So their pilots would have had hours in multiple theaters.

 

[max_vale]

That's cool to hear! I also know there were several Japanese pilots that scored victories against multiple opponents; Saburo Sakai I belive has credits against the Soviets (during the Nomonhan war in 1939), Dutch, U.S. and Australians.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Luftwaffe was the only Axis air force that would have had pilots operating outside of the ETO/MTO, though.

I am not aware if their pilots had any contact with Allied aircraft in the Pacific, however.