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The Me 262 was not a dogfighter, nor was it targeting the US escorts. Any Me 262 pilot who slowed down and engaged in a turning fight with a piston engine fighter deserved to get shot down
Lack of air brakes seems like a major shortcoming, yes, probably one of the most legitimate complaints regarding the Me 262 that could/should have been addressed. (should have aided landing as well)Captain Eric Brown, Chief Naval Test Pilot and C.O. Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight Royal Aircraft Establishment, who tested the Me 262 noted: "This was a Blitzkrieg aircraft. You whack in at your bomber. It was never meant to be a dogfighter, it was meant to be a destroyer of bombers... The great problem with it was it did not have dive brakes. For example, if you want to fight and destroy a B-17, you come in on a dive. The 30mm cannon were not so accurate beyond 600 meters. So you normally came in at 600 yards and would open fire on your B-17. And your closing speed was still high and since you had to break away at 200 meters to avoid a collision, you only had two seconds firing time. Now, in two seconds, you can't sight. You can fire randomly and hope for the best. If you want to sight and fire, you need to double that time to four seconds. And with dive brakes, you could have done that."[44]
Also one of the technically simpler designs that feasibly could have been developed much earlier had there been greater support/interest.Eventually, German pilots developed new combat tactics to counter Allied bombers' defenses. Me 262s, equipped with R4M rockets, approached from the side of a bomber formation, where their silhouettes were widest, and while still out of range of the bombers' machine guns, fired a salvo of rockets with strongly brisant Hexogen-filled warheads, exactly the same explosive in the shells fired by the Me 262A's quartet of MK 108 cannon. One or two of these rockets could down even the famously rugged B-17 Flying Fortress,[45] from the "metal-shattering" brisant effect of the R4M rockets' explosive warheads, weighing only some 520 grams (17.6 ounces) per projectile out of a total launch weight of 4 kg (8.8 pounds) apiece.
I may have phrased it poorly, but I meant to say the Me 262's critical AoA would be unusually high due to the characteristics of LE slats (or slots for that matter). Even with the 262's thin, symmetrical airfoil, the use of slats should make the critical AoA higher than pretty much any conventional airfoil in use, especially one without the advantage of prop wash. (P-38 might be an exception due both to airfoil and twin props and especially with maneuvering flaps deployed -not the dive flaps, the trailing edge flaps in maneuvering position -- the P-38 was known for being stable in extreme high-AoA high-speed stalls with a combination of factors -including neutral torque- preventing spinning or tumbling)The Me 262 is 11% thick at the root and 9% at the tip.
I've seen it written that the Horten had an airfoil that developed most of the lift along the centerline of the airfoil and less at the leading and trailing edges, but have never seen an airfoil number for it, so I have no way to estimate it's stalling characteristics. The writing I saw has also not been verified with any primary sources.
So, why would the critical angle of attack have been much higher for the Ho. 229? Do you have any data supporting that? No agenda and not a real disagreement ... just asking as I don't know much about the airfoil on the Horten.
The production P-59As and Bs weren't underpowered for their time, no more so than the Meteor I or III, or P-80A. 2x 1650 or 2000 lbf engines should have been fine. The main problems with performance were the very large, somewhat thick wing (slightly larger than the Meteor's and about as thick as the Vampire's) and more so the engine nacelle/fuselage interaction. (possibly the tail surface thickness as well) It appeared to have very similar problems to the early Meteors but a bit more pronounced, and like the Meteor it may have been the nacelle design alone that limited things most, with longer chord, streamlined intake and exhaust ducts improving mach limit and top speed substantially. (likely increasing the already high ceiling as well) Fuel capacity was also somewhat limited, but given the massive space inside the wing, a redesign to expand capacity should have been very possible. (reduced drag from corrected nacelles combined with the already modest fuel expansion in the P-59B should have made it reasonably useful for medium range intrusion and recon -especially at high altitude)Of course, if a better powerplant were available, the U.S. may have re-evaluated the P-59.
Apparently there were plans for bomb bays in the later, unbuilt prototypes, but not in any of the completed aircraft. I'm not quite sure where you'd fit any either, given the thick centerline is pretty well dominated by landing gear ... maybe some space in the wing section. but given the 2000 kg bombload capacity, I'd think most of that would be carried externally. (or maybe with some sort of expendable doped wooden aerodynamic fairings to reduce drag and mask the radar signal of the bombs)The Horton Ho 229 was designed as a fighter or strike bomber. It had a bomb bay. Gotha was involved only so much as providing a manufacturing facility.
Mach limit would be less of a limiting factor below 20,000 ft, more so the limited thrust of the early Vampire and also limited thrust to weight ratio, climb, and acceleration. (though it was faster than the Meteor III, even moderately faster than the Meteor III with long chord nacelles, though possibly slower than with the 2,400 lbf Derwent IV)It was armed with a pair of 30mm canon because it was thought it would be a capable fighter as well. Given its performance it would ideally never meet a Vampire as a bomber: it was far faster due to the Vampire's relatively (to Me 262 and Meteor III/IV) low Mach limit.
I'd think internal capacity for fuel and other stores (bombs at larger scales) would be major advantages, plus a wing large/thick enough to completely bury engines in and still have low drag and high mach number. (granted, all characteristics shared with the delta wing, including thick deltas with buried/blended/nonexistent fuselages)Dr Kurt Tank conducted an analysis of flying wing versus conventional configuration aircraft. His broad conclusion was that in General that flying wings offer no advantage in speed or other areas of performance but do offer an notable advantage in altitude due to their lower wing loading. He however concluded that due to the extra flight testing required of a flying wing that it would take longer to reach service. I would tend to think range was a little better as well.
I wonder if the project would have been at all accelerated/improved if they'd built at least one airframe still targeting the BMW 003 lest even more problems materialize on the 004 and/or if 003 production materialized soon enough to be useful in parallel with the 004. Given the characteristics of the 003 when it actually reached production quality (and late prototypes actually flight worthy) it seems like it would have still had useful advantages over the 004, and possibly prove less dangerous in testing as well. (on the Me 262 as well -probably better than diverting resources to the He 162)Things went slightly wrong in that the aircraft was designed around the BMW 003, then upgraded to the Junkers Jumo 004 which was progressing faster and more powerful. At one point Junkers had moved an accessories gearbox. Unfortunately nobody informed Horton (this is today still and all too common mistake in fast moving tech projects) and this gearbox now went though the spar area and would have forced the spar to be too thin in that area. The short term solution was to thicken the wing/fuselage in the centre area slightly. It was thought this might effect mach limit and the solution was to be a slight scaling up of the aircraft to restore fineness. The first two prototype were to be test beds and the subsequent ones slight scaling ups (about 5%).
Lack of air brakes seems like a major shortcoming, yes, probably one of the most legitimate complaints regarding the Me 262 that could/should have been addressed. (should have aided landing as well).
I would have thought it would have been realized during flight testing ... granted, it took a long time before dive flaps were introduced on the P-47 or P-38 (useful as air brakes and countering mach-tuck). For aircraft with serious critical mach performance issues, having air breaks for limiting dive speeds would be useful. (cases where you'd want to actually loose more speed than that would be more limited, but still notable -though without breaks, at moderate speeds, pulling high-G turns or even high-speed stalls to bleed energy is almost as useful)This was an after the fact realization as it was discovered that once you built up speed in a jet (even an early jet) it took a lot to slow it down. In jets I've flown you used the speed brakes to get you on speed in the pattern, kept them in base to final and deployed them during the roll out to aid in braking.
Compared to the BF 109, I don't think the Me 262's endurance was that poor at all, at least at high altitude (fuel consumption rapidly increases in denser air), but it would still be limited, yes ... and the high consumption at low level would mean more reserve needed for landing.Eventually the Me 262s were forced to disengage due to one of the most fundamental shortcomings of the type, a lack of endurance.
Indeed, using the air brakes for that would seem unwise. Using them to manage steep dives when already well over 500 MPH and risking passing through limiting mach, brakes would be more useful. (more so if they were engineered to be safely operated for emergency use AFTER exceeding limiting mach and getting locked into mach-tuck)It seems to me slowing down would expose the Me 262s to a bomber formation's defensive fire for longer (the reason head on attacks were developed) and give the escorting fighters a chance to get at them. They had to exploit the one clear advantage they had which was their speed.
No more useless than the P-51, P-38, P-47, F6F, or F4U were against most Japanese opponents ... and probably better than P-40s and F4Fs vs A6Ms and Ki 43s, perhaps similar to P-40s vs Ki-27s. (armament aside -the MK 108 was useful for dogfights, but overkill and not ideal -the velocity and RoF of MG 151s would be far more useful and plenty devastating)Sort of makes them useless for fighter V fighter combat, doesn't it? Of course the bombers couldn't maneuver so quickly and so were relatively stationary targets.
But fighter V fighter, the jets would be OK against one another, not so good versus a good piston fighter ... and vice-versa. Good thing the timeline happened as it did.
I would have thought it would have been realized during flight testing ... granted, it took a long time before dive flaps were introduced on the P-47 or P-38 (useful as air brakes and countering mach-tuck). For aircraft with serious critical mach performance issues, having air breaks for limiting dive speeds would be useful. (cases where you'd want to actually loose more speed than that would be more limited, but still notable -though without breaks, at moderate speeds, pulling high-G turns or even high-speed stalls to bleed energy is almost as useful)
I'm not sure when the Meteor got airbreaks ... I think the Mk.I had them, I know the Mk.III did. I think the P-80 got the wing-center/belly break in the YP-80A
Lack of air brakes seems like a major shortcoming, yes, probably one of the most legitimate complaints regarding the Me 262 that could/should have been addressed. (should have aided landing as well)
That said, Delcyros pointed out in a lengthy previous discussion on this topic, that the consumption of explosive filler and (especially) propellant used for those rockets far exceeded that of conventional cannons and would have further hampered the strained logistics. (though the anti-tank version of the R4M would have been more useful than existing ground attack rockets)