How Could The US Have Been More Prepared to Fight WW2?

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Dook

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Jun 14, 2020
US Army Air Corp

Cancel all aircraft production, other than the aircraft noted below. Accelerate the design and production of the high altitude pressurized bomber to replace the B-17 as soon as possible.

Order 1,000 P-51 fighters with drop tanks. Train the P-51 pilots to perform both the fighter mission, the glide bomber mission, and the close air support mission. Deploy these fighters to the east coast.

Transfer the 69 US Army Air Corp P-38's to the US Marine Corp and move them to San Diego to provide coastal defense. Crane them aboard an escort carrier to move them to Oahu as soon as possible.

Send the 53 Allison powered P-51's to the west coast to provide coastal defense.

At all Pacific airfields ensure that you have significant anti-aircraft guns with sufficient ammunition stored near the guns. Build cement or thick dirt or sand bag walls around all anti-aircraft gun positions and add some camouflage.

Build underground bomb shelters, underground command, ammunition/weapons, and fuel storage at Hickam, Wheeler Field, Ewa, Midway, and Wake airfields.

Perform tests with B-17 and B-25 bombers attempting to bomb moving US Navy carriers and destroyers with sacks of flour. Also test the B-25 using the aerial torpedo against target vessels. Conduct other tests with the bombers attempting to bomb land targets to determine accuracy. Report findings to the President as soon as you get them.

Aquire 600 SBD dive bombers and station them on the east coast. Ask the manufacturer to increase the internal fuel storage and add drop tanks.



US Army
Increase the gun on the M4 Sherman tank to a 90mm as soon as possible and add "wet storage" to the ammunition. Ensure that you have sufficient stockpiles of M61 APCBC rounds.

Redesign and improve the bazooka so that it fires a warhead with a larger shaped charge that can actually destroy a tank.

Move 100 M3 Lee tanks to Schofield Barracks in Hawaii.

Train infantry units to call in close air support from fighter aircraft onto enemy positions and, during wartime, always have some fighter aircraft assigned to provide close air support to infantry.



US Navy
Stop using the single file convoy tactic for delivering cargo to England, use side by side by side sailing and make zig zagging mandatory.

Cancel all aircraft production as soon as possible except for the aircraft noted below.

Accelerate the production of the TBF and get it to the fleet more quickly. Also increase the internal fuel storage and add drop tanks to give it more range. Once the carriers receive the TBF move the TBD to shore stations to provide defense.

Increase the range of the SBD dive bomber by increasing the internal fuel storage and adding drop tanks.

As soon as possible test 30 submarine launched torpedo's and 30 air dropped torpedo's for performance. Report findings immediately to the US President. If malfunctions are realized, accelerate the repair and production of the improved torpedo's and be prepared to quickly send them out to forward locations in the Philippines, Midway, and Hawaii.

Accelerate the production of the Gato Class submarines and have them made at Manitowoc, Mare Island, and Groton shipyards. Move nine "R" class submarines to the Pacific. Move all "S", Tambor, and Gato Class submarines that are on the east coast to the Pacific as soon as possible. Keep the 7 "O" Class submarines on the east coast for training.

Modify all large, light, and escort aircraft carriers by adding a 10 degree angled landing deck that protrudes from the left side of the carrier. Move the arresting gear cables to line up with the new landing deck. This will enable you to recover and launch aircraft at the same time. Weld the central elevator so that it becomes part of the deck. Add two or three aircraft elevators to the right side of every carrier. This will allow you to move aircraft to the hanger while launching and recovering aircraft. Also, in two places in the hangar install sliding fire doors that can be closed quickly during general quarters to isolate any fires. Have overhead fire sprinklers and hand operated fire bottles installed through the entire hangar bay and have fire sprinklers built into the flight deck. Remove the heavy guns and their ammunition from Saratoga and Lexington and install double oerlikon anti-aircraft guns in place. Add significant anti-aircraft guns to all aircraft carriers.

Quickly design and build new large aircraft carriers with all of the above changes and station the carriers at Bremerton, Washington.

Once all Atlantic aircraft carriers are modified at Norfolk move them to San Diego for permanent assignment.

On every destroyer completely remove the #3 and #5 turrets and guns. This will greatly reduce and lower the topside weight on every destroyer. Double up the #1, #2, and #4 turrets with two 5" guns and install a quad .50 cal anti-aircraft gun in the center of those turrets.

The next destroyer model will be wider by 4 feet and have all of the above changes incorporated into the design

At sea always have two or three destroyers close in on each side of each carrier to provide anti-aircraft defense and torpedo defense. The destroyers should use their own ship to intercept a torpedo if possible. Reduce the destroyer crews to just above the minimum necessary to reduce the possible loss of life. Increase the total number of destroyers to 120 with at least 80 of them assigned to the Pacific.

Order 1,000 naval versions of the P-51 fighter to replace all carrier fighters. Add a tailhook, wingfold, and drop tanks to the original design.

Ask Douglas to produce a naval version of the A-20 Havoc that has more internal fuel storage (1,800 miles total range), a much lower takeoff speed (much less than 100 mph), wingfold, a tailhook, and the ability to carry two torpedo's internally (one above the other).

Increase the internal fuel storage of the SBD dive bomber, add drop tanks, and modify all active SBD's.

Build seven more tanker ships and move them to the west coast.

Establish two construction companies with all necessary construction equipment and move them to Guam and have them build a Marine Corp airbase and a Navy airbase with significant port facilities.

As the F4 is replaced by the naval P-51 aboard aircraft carriers move the F4 to shore bases at Oahu and the mainland to provide some home defense.

Train all fighter pilots to perform the close air support role. Work with the Army Air Corp and Marines to standardize the terminology used. In wartime, always assign fighter aircraft to the close air support role.

Work with the US Marines and US Army to enable them to call in fire support from battleships, cruisers, and destroyers.

Order flag officers on Hawaii to communicate better with Army and Marine flag officers on Hawaii so that each service knows what the other is doing in regards to conducting search and patrol missions and ensure each service always has fighter aircraft on alert.

At all Pacific bases build sufficient anti-aircraft positions with cement or sand bag walls and some camouflage.

Work with the US Army Air Corp to perform tests with B-17 and B-25 bombers attempting to bomb moving carriers and moving destroyers with sacks of flour. Move all topside personel and aircraft below during these tests.

Order 60 LST, 60 LCT, and 60 LSM built. Assign half of them to the Pacific to move M4 Sherman tanks and amphibious assault vehicles from the US mainland to Hawaii and on to Midway, Wake, and Guam. The other landing ships and craft will be stationed on the US east coast.

Increase the submarine repair capability at Guam so they can completely overhaul submarines there so the submarines don't have to sail all the way back to the west coast.

Install anti-torpedo nets outboard of the carriers and battleships in port at every Pacific base including Pearl Harbor.

Standardize terminology used by patrol aircraft so the aircrews know to report their aircraft number, ship type, course, speed, and number of ships. Train Pacific PBY aircrews by having them go out and find carrier groups and other ships and report their positions.

Have the radar stations on Oahu report all large unknown contacts to Admiral Kimmel's and General Short's aides. Those flag officers will make the decision to alert fighter pilots, anti-aircraft guns, and other commands. Train the radar units by conducting mock air raids.

Heavily reinforce the following locations with at least the following:

New London
30 Gato Class submarines

30 F4

30 TBF



Norfolk
100 F4

50 TBF



San Diego
50 F4

50 TBF

1 escort carrier USS Charger to train navy pilots and move aircraft to Pearl Harbor



Pearl Harbor/Ford Island:
30 anti-aircraft guns with cement and sandbag walls for protection and some camouflage.

Build underground fuel storage, ammunition storage, bomb and torpedo storage, and build bomb shelters near the barracks.

80 F4 fighters from the carriers when they are replaced by P-51's

10 submarines

7 carriers

20 destroyers

2 sub tenders

20 PBY



Barbers Point
180 F4's, when replaced on carriers by the P-51

50 TBF



Ewa
90 P-40



NAS Guam:

Build a naval air station with at least three runways, underground command, fuel, and ammunition storage, and underground bomb shelters. Build ship docks, seawalls, ship repair, submarine overhaul, and aircraft repair facilities. Install a radar system at NAS Guam. Have spare parts for submarines and a significant number of torpedo's stored.

1 construction company with equipment

30 anti-aircraft guns with cement and sandbag walls for protection and camouflage.

150 P-51's

30 SBD dive bombers

30 TBF

USS Arizona battleship

USS Nevada battleship

USS Long Island, escort carrier with 31 F4 fighters

6 cruisers

30 Gato Class submarines

20 destroyers with radar

10 PT boats

2 LST

2 LCT

PBY aircraft as necessary



Midway:
Build underground command, fuel, and ammunition/bomb storage.

100 P-51 fighters

20 SBD dive bombers

20 TBF torpedo bombers

10 Gato Class submarines

2 cruisers

10 destroyers with radar

10 PT boats

PBY aircraft as necessary



Wake:
Build underground command, fuel, and ammunition/bomb storage.

50 F4 fighters from the carriers when they are replaced by P-38's

30 SBD dive bombers

30 TBF torpedo bombers

4 Gato Class submarines

6 destroyers with radar

6 PT boats

PBY aircraft as necessary



US Marine Corp
Retire the F2 Brewster Buffalo fighter from active service as soon as possible. Use as decoys at Kaneohe.

Accept 69 P-38's from the US Army Air Corp and procure another 250 P-38's.

Improve the amphibious assault vehicle by adding two fully armored gun turrets.

Train Marine infantry units to call in close air support from Marine, Navy, and Army Air Corp fighter aircraft. Standardize the terminology between all three services. In wartime try to always have fighter aircraft ready to provide close air support.

Build protected cement or sand bag walls, or other heavy material, around all anti-aircraft gun positions.

Heavily reinforce the following islands with at least the numbers and equipment designated below:

MCAS Guam:
As quickly as possible have the Navy Seabees build a marine base with three runways, underground bomb shelters, command bunkers, fuel, and ammunition/weapons storage. Build significant base facilities to support more than 4,000 troops. Install a radar system.

3,000 Marines

64 M4 Sherman tanks with 90mm guns

32 amphibious assault vehicles

150 P-38's

4 155mm artillery

4 four tube mortar teams

30 anti-aircraft guns



Midway:
6 M4 Sherman tanks

30 anti-aircraft guns



Wake:
30 P-38's

6 M4 Sherman tanks

30 anti-aircraft guns



Kaneohe:
6,000 Marines

100 P-38's

32 M4 Sherman tanks

30 anti-aircraft guns
 
Welcome to the site.
If I may give my .02$ - topics like this might be more suitable for the 'What if' sub forum. A good what if topic might need some 'cut off' date, so that we're all in the same page, as well as noting what does nnot get build/produced, in what factories.
All of this preparation for war against Japan is okay, however the main enemy is/was Germany.
 
Maybe a Mod can move the thread? I have more "What if's" so next time I will post them there.

The main enemy was Germany? Yeah, I think Roosevelt just said that to appease the British. We didn't seriously hit Germany with B-17's until 1943 and Normandy wasn't until June of '44.

In my original post the new high altitude bomber is the B-29. We should not have tried to attack Germany with the B-17. That was a slaughter.

The P-51 first flew one year before Pearl Harbor. If it was put into full production soon after we could have used long range P-51's from Britain to conduct daily strafing attacks on German trains and airfields during all of '42 until the B-29 was available in large enough numbers to go after German cities with P-51's escorting.

And the Russians did most of the fighting against the Germans.
 
Man the timeline of this post is all over the place.
Just because the "P-51" fist flew in October 1940 doesn't mean it was ready for production. The USN also evaluated several types of the P-51 and found them unsuitable for carrier service (P-51A, P-51D and P-51H).

I see a considerable amount of references to torpedoes, but not once is there a mention of actually making the torpedoes work, which they were notorious for NOT doing.

And the B-17 was perfect for the job over Europe, it just took time to realize that they were not invincible and needed an escort. Therw was not a bomber made or used in WWII that was impervious to interception, even the Ar234 got shot down on occasion.
 
This question has a key flaw....it supposes foreknowledge of events in order to make decisions. It also fails to account for production and logistics chain capacity to implement a number of the proposed decisions.
 
It is interesting that focus is on ordering P-51s. If you look at its history it is very informative. When did the US order it and why? There is no point in putting long range tanks on it until you put a two stage Merlin engine in it. The only way I can see to get substantially more/ quicker Merlin P-51s would be to ship airframes to the UK and install RR engines there in preference to Spitfire Mk IX. That requires fantasy levels of fore sight and political agreements.
 
With a significant isolationist /anti war movement how much political capital can the govt spend on military expansion .
Was joe taxpayer willing to pay for all these aircraft and ships ?
 
I see a question in the title, but there's no query in any of this. Are you asking us what the US could do to be more prepared, or just telling us? This isn't how anyone would start a discussion in person.
This question has a key flaw....
Outside of the title, there is no question. All we got was soap box pontification.
 
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With a significant isolationist /anti war movement how much political capital can the govt spend on military expansion .
Was joe taxpayer willing to pay for all these aircraft and ships ?
Not until the fall of France and Pearl Harbor, fortunately some people with brains had taken steps to allow the USA to fight.
 
Not until the fall of France and Pearl Harbor, fortunately some people with brains had taken steps to allow the USA to fight.

Isolationism is interesting as one of the US's political positions, as it was a position that was largely independent of the left-right axis of the political spectrum. The opposite position doesn't have a catchy name (internationalists? interventionists? realists?).

I'm not an expert on the era, but had the GOP won in 1932 or 1936, the US would have been far less prepared as the GOP wanted to get out of the Depression by cutting spending and balancing the budget, and many of those cuts would be to military spending (quite a few of those USN ships were built with funding from various anti-Depression programs). There is also a possibility that US internal security issues would become more serious than they had been since the Civil War, even including the state-sponsored, white supremacist terrorism that became common after Reconstruction was prematurely shut down.
 
The P-51 first flew in October '40 but wasn't ready for production yet? Production just needs a desire. There's nothing that makes the P-51 unsuitable for carrier service except that the admirals had a better relationship with Grumman.

The B-17 was perfect for the job over Europe? So, an older bomber model is superior to the newer higher altitude and faster model? You're thinking just like the US WW2 generals thought which was "How do I lose as many men as possible and still win the war?"
 
This question has a key flaw....it supposes foreknowledge of events in order to make decisions. It also fails to account for production and logistics chain capacity to implement a number of the proposed decisions.
The major flaw was not being prepared. WW2 started in 1939. We had two years to prepare.

Some of the other flaws were not realizing that air power was supreme over battleships. The range on a battleship guns is 20 miles. The range of WW2 carrier aircraft is 350 to 450 miles. That's what Billy Mitchell tried to explain it to them in 1921 but the admirals thought they were smarter, but they were not.

There is no failure to account for production and logistics chain capacity. Everything stated is well within the capabilities of the US manufacturing.
 
Firstly who is "we". Secondly do you know how long it takes to get a factory up and running for engines and air frames? Thirdly lose the attitude.
 
We essentially agree but you are too accepting of mediocrity from the admirals and generals. Hold them to a higher standard. Their job should have been to get the best equipment to their war fighters but too often they stood in the way.

How is it fantasy level fore sight to realize that a new fighter plane should have the best engine possible? If you are going to design a new aircraft are you going to accept using outdated parts?

One general of the army refused to upgrade the gun on the M4 Sherman tank simply because he wanted a new tank design and thought that if he upgraded the gun on the Sherman then he wouldn't get his new tank. His new tank arrived a few weeks before the end of WW2 in Europe and had no effect on the war. He cost a lot of men's lives.
 

No it's not, for a whole host of reasons. The initial expansion in US military manufacturing in 1938-1940 was largely driven by cash purchases for equipment from UK and France. The US wasn't ordering huge quantities of equipment because it intended to remain neutral.

The reason the USMC still had the Buffalo is because the F4F wasn't available in sufficient numbers. Taking the Buffalo out of service won't magically generate more F4Fs...the USMC would have to retrograde to F3F biplanes. Despite flying in 1937, the first operational F4F was only completed in Feb 1940 and widespread adoption within the US Navy took another 12-18 months. There were still F3F biplanes in front-line use in the last quarter of 1941...and that was despite VF-2 and VF-3 operating the F2A-1, -2 and -3.

You also have to consider prevailing doctrine. There wasn't a formal doctrine for fighter aircraft providing CAS for ground forces in 1938-1940. That requirement evolved as combat experience grew and the abilities of fighter aircraft improved to enable delivery of an appropriate amount of punch per aircraft.

You make many detailed arrangements about force dispositions but those require foreknowledge of where and when Japan would attack. That luxury was not available and so such movements are not within the scope of US abilities (yes, I know this isn't a manufacturing problem but it's still a key flaw with the whole discussion).
 
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