How good are modern Russian Jet compared to western designs? (1 Viewer)

[Nodeo-Franvier]

How good MiG-29M and Su-35 compared to western design to be exact.
1.Airframe
2.Engine
3.Radar/Avionics

 

[tomo pauk]

Airframe and engine - okay, unless when compared with F-22 and clean F-35.
Radar/avionics - probably a notch down?

 

[GTX]

More important is the pilot training and support organisation.

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

Airframe and engine - okay, unless when compared with F-22 and clean F-35.
Radar/avionics - probably a notch down?

Does their airframe use as much composite as modern fighter such as Rafael/Gripen-E?

 

[GTX]

Does their airframe use as much composite as modern fighter such as Rafael/Gripen-E?

Hardly relevant.

 

[tomo pauk]

Does their airframe use as much composite as modern fighter such as Rafael/Gripen-E?

I don't think so.

 

[ARTESH]

More important is the pilot training and support organisation.

From entries of one of IRIAF pilots trained in Russia, back in 90's:

Russians are good makers, but poor trainers.

 

[RogerdeLluria]

Airframe and engine - okay, unless when compared with F-22 and clean F-35.
Radar/avionics - probably a notch down?

This is western propaganda.

It is well known that Russian jets where designed to be extremely easy to upgrade, field modifications requiring just a few minutes of work can bring them to western standards.

 

[WAFU]

How good MiG-29M and Su-35 compared to western design to be exact.
1.Airframe
2.Engine
3.Radar/Avionics

1. Little better than 70's tech
2. Garbage
3. Little better than 80's tech on a good day, most of its garbage

 

[J_P_C]

Airframe and engine - okay, unless when compared with F-22 and clean F-35.
Radar/avionics - probably a notch down?

i tend not agree with you...
airframe design - more less it hold at the point of years 1970s with some unique materials and technologies which haven't been investigated on west due to risk level, cost, and raw material access - like high temp aluminum alloys (scandium based), wide use arc welding in airframe design, wide use of steel alloys in airframe design etc....
bonded structures and composites - very, very big issue related to quality and technical culture level
in compare to west - QC is close to non existent
engine development have been basically hold at the point of soviet union collapse - most critical part of their engine making industry is located.... in Ukraine - hot sections - turbine blades, combustors and casings.....
they are lack of myriad of small components which are normally available on the west (fasteners, laminated shims and other standard parts which are could be not necessary but making running aircraft projects doable with reasonable - relatively - costs)
Avionics - this one not even require detailed comments.... i agree with WAFU - "garbage" is pretty good description...

 

[Nodeo-Franvier]

i tend not agree with you...
airframe design - more less it hold at the point of years 1970s with some unique materials and technologies which haven't been investigated on west due to risk level, cost, and raw material access - like high temp aluminum alloys (scandium based), wide use arc welding in airframe design, wide use of steel alloys in airframe design etc....
bonded structures and composites - very, very big issue related to quality and technical culture level
in compare to west - QC is close to non existent
engine development have been basically hold at the point of soviet union collapse - most critical part of their engine making industry is located.... in Ukraine - hot sections - turbine blades, combustors and casings.....
they are lack of myriad of small components which are normally available on the west (fasteners, laminated shims and other standard parts which are could be not necessary but making running aircraft projects doable with reasonable - relatively - costs)
Avionics - this one not even require detailed comments.... i agree with WAFU - "garbage" is pretty good description...

Pretty surprising given the fact that MiG-29M performed seemingly well in Libya and that Su-30 was an export success.

 

[J_P_C]

This is western propaganda.

It is well known that Russian jets where designed to be extremely easy to upgrade, field modifications requiring just a few minutes of work can bring them to western standards.

View attachment 704945

interesting thing i just noticed -left HDD is presenting very basic nav info - just duplicating NPP information - there is no moving map on it this is why they need Garmin receiver.....

 

[J_P_C]

Pretty surprising given the fact that MiG-29M performed seemingly well in Libya and that Su-30 was an export success.

export Su-30/27 is equipped with Safran avionics - French have been responsible for components and system integration, about Mig's - who said so? - russians???

 

[J_P_C]

From entries of one of IRIAF pilots trained in Russia, back in 90's:

Russians are good makers, but poor trainers.

no they are poor makers and hopeless trainers - only comparison in 90's IRIAF pilots can do it was their own industry....

 

[J_P_C]

Does their airframe use as much composite as modern fighter such as Rafael/Gripen-E?

you may not sell modern composite materials nor technologies related to designing and manufacturing parts out of this to Russia - EU Comission and US Government is not granting licenses for this since ever - most of this is ITAR controlled....

 

[ARTESH]

no they are poor makers and hopeless trainers - only comparison in 90's IRIAF pilots can do it was their own industry....

No industry!!! Not at all, on any level!!! Don't let those namings / translations mislead you.

I put it in most simple and non political form as I can:

It needs materials and knowledge, that cannot be found here.

 

[J_P_C]

No industry!!! Not at all, on any level!!! Don't let those namings / translations mislead you.

I put it in most simple and non political form as I can:

It needs materials and knowledge, that cannot be found here

I think i understood your point. That was also mine - could be i just made unfortunate usage of "industry" wording - i'm realizing that your comment was done in relation to quality of military staff training Iranians expected to get from russians which in fact was substandard. Level of overestimation of russian capabilities in a term of military technology which is still exist in western world keep surprising me.....

 

[ARTESH]

I think i understood your point. That was also mine - could be i just made unfortunate usage of "industry" wording - i'm realizing that your comment was done in relation to quality of military staff training Iranians expected to get from russians which in fact was substandard. Level of overestimation of russian capabilities in a term of military technology which is still exist in western world keep surprising me.....

Exactly.

On the other hand, The Army Top Brass, do not "Trust" Russians, neither their words nor their technologies. But as might have guessed, a slave [the regime] can't disobey his master's [Russians] orders.

 

[ARTESH]

I think i understood your point. That was also mine - could be i just made unfortunate usage of "industry" wording - i'm realizing that your comment was done in relation to quality of military staff training Iranians expected to get from russians which in fact was substandard. Level of overestimation of russian capabilities in a term of military technology which is still exist in western world keep surprising me.....

Something else, and kinda of my personal pov:

We have had several good chances to renewal the Air Force... The Army has sent specialists to different "Warplane Making" countries and companies around Europa, to see things from near and have a series of short talks and taking notes to what should be purchased to replenish our empty stocks ... One of planes that was chosen, was the Swedish SAAB JAS-39 Gripe

...

I am not an specialist in aviation at all, but I trust those who made those decisions, with my each and every cell. Long story short, the younger brother [IRGC] was upset and furious, did whatever they could, to cancel deals.

 

[J_P_C]

Something else, and kinda of my personal pov:

We have had several good chances to renewal the Air Force... The Army has sent specialists to different "Warplane Making" countries and companies around Europa, to see things from near and have a series of short talks and taking notes to what should be purchased to replenish our empty stocks ... One of planes that was chosen, was the Swedish SAAB JAS-39 Gripe

...

I am not an specialist in aviation at all, but I trust those who made those decisions, with my each and every cell. Long story short, the younger brother [IRGC] was upset and furious, did whatever they could, to cancel deals.

Grippen is 55% made out of US components - Swedes are unable to sell this airplane without permission from US.....