Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
One of my favorite WW2 aviation stories is the absolutely insane raid by TB-3 with I-16 parasite fighers, along with some Pe-2s, against the King Carol I bridge near Ploesti.
How good was the soviet air force?
- Thread starter Venomstick121
- Start date
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One of my favorite WW2 aviation stories is the absolutely insane raid by TB-3 with I-16 parasite fighers, along with some Pe-2s, against the King Carol I bridge near Ploesti.
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
Both sides ceded some land based on the Yalta treaty, but the Anglo-Americans certainly had control of regions such as the Belgian border, and the Swiss border. I myself was stationed there during the Cold War
Regarding the Pe-2 and Tu-2...
...""The first three serial Tu-2s produced by plant No. 166 arrived at the Kalinin Front in September 1942. The vehicles turned out to be part of the 3rd Air Army, commanded by Colonel-General M.M. Gromov. Together with the aircraft, a group of specialists headed by D.S. Markov, who was responsible for the introduction and operation of the Tu-2, arrived at the front. The bombers began their combat career at Migalovo airfield near Kalinin on September 14, 1942.
Both test pilots and front-line pilots participated in the flights. During the military tests, the vehicles made 25 sorties, an average of one flight per day. During the Tu-2 sorties, they were threatened by both anti-aircraft artillery and enemy fighter aircraft. However, the three bombers always flew with reliable cover, so the threat from the fighters was less. The front-line pilots highly appreciated the Tu-2. They emphasized the high efficiency of the aircraft, capable of dropping large-mass bombs on a target, powerful defensive weapons, ease of piloting and high flight qualities.
It was much easier to pilot the Tu-2 than the Pe-2. The plane could easily fly with only one engine. The impression of the aircraft was spoiled only by the low reliability of the M-82 engines. Despite the fact that the regiment flew during the day and without cover, the German fighters failed to shoot down a single Tu-2. In general, unreliable M-82 engines posed a more serious threat. Their accidents caused 11 forced landings and the termination of ten sorties. For various reasons, 17 engines had to be replaced, and eight more were working on the last hours of the engine life.
All aircraft produced by plant No. 166 were used to equip units of the 3rd Air Army operating on the Kalinin Front. The pilots noted the superiority of the Tu-2 over the Pe-2 and Pe-3 aircraft. At low and medium altitudes, the Tu-2 exceeded the available bombers in speed by 100 km/ h or more, carried more bombs (up to 3000 kg). An important plus was that the Tu-2 could fly freely with one engine running...""
These are small excerpts from the 132nd OBAP. A separate bomber aviation regiment. And here's another...""However, the Tu-2 has never been used as a dive bomber. Later, the aerodynamic brakes were removed from the aircraft and the idea of using it as a dive bomber was completely abandoned. During the war, the Pe-2 was a dive bomber, and the Tu-2 became a pure medium bomber.""
...""The first three serial Tu-2s produced by plant No. 166 arrived at the Kalinin Front in September 1942. The vehicles turned out to be part of the 3rd Air Army, commanded by Colonel-General M.M. Gromov. Together with the aircraft, a group of specialists headed by D.S. Markov, who was responsible for the introduction and operation of the Tu-2, arrived at the front. The bombers began their combat career at Migalovo airfield near Kalinin on September 14, 1942.
Both test pilots and front-line pilots participated in the flights. During the military tests, the vehicles made 25 sorties, an average of one flight per day. During the Tu-2 sorties, they were threatened by both anti-aircraft artillery and enemy fighter aircraft. However, the three bombers always flew with reliable cover, so the threat from the fighters was less. The front-line pilots highly appreciated the Tu-2. They emphasized the high efficiency of the aircraft, capable of dropping large-mass bombs on a target, powerful defensive weapons, ease of piloting and high flight qualities.
It was much easier to pilot the Tu-2 than the Pe-2. The plane could easily fly with only one engine. The impression of the aircraft was spoiled only by the low reliability of the M-82 engines. Despite the fact that the regiment flew during the day and without cover, the German fighters failed to shoot down a single Tu-2. In general, unreliable M-82 engines posed a more serious threat. Their accidents caused 11 forced landings and the termination of ten sorties. For various reasons, 17 engines had to be replaced, and eight more were working on the last hours of the engine life.
All aircraft produced by plant No. 166 were used to equip units of the 3rd Air Army operating on the Kalinin Front. The pilots noted the superiority of the Tu-2 over the Pe-2 and Pe-3 aircraft. At low and medium altitudes, the Tu-2 exceeded the available bombers in speed by 100 km/ h or more, carried more bombs (up to 3000 kg). An important plus was that the Tu-2 could fly freely with one engine running...""
These are small excerpts from the 132nd OBAP. A separate bomber aviation regiment. And here's another...""However, the Tu-2 has never been used as a dive bomber. Later, the aerodynamic brakes were removed from the aircraft and the idea of using it as a dive bomber was completely abandoned. During the war, the Pe-2 was a dive bomber, and the Tu-2 became a pure medium bomber.""
Escuadrilla Azul
Tech Sergeant
- 1,826
- Feb 27, 2020
T
Texnuk
, maybe you should try to expose your opinions with more than some vagueness, perhaps some facts and sources.
Which pilot 8 german planes with the I-16 in the begining of the GPW? When? Where?
Of course the VVS was the better air force of the whole conflict, capable of day and night strategic bombing hundreds of miles behind the frontlines beside interdiction of communication lines and CAS.
Of course the MiG-3 was a capable interceptor at high altitudes. Sadly, it was not the way it was used at the start and the not so good high altitude interceptor P-39 (I guess your P-38 was just a typo) was highly useful in the sort of aerial combat that predominated in the Eastern Front.
Just because some people have a different opinion from you, don't think that nobody have a clue about the air war in the East in this forum.
As
tomo pauk
hinted, a modest approach in a new place is highly appreciated, here also.
Good pics, BTW.
Which pilot 8 german planes with the I-16 in the begining of the GPW? When? Where?
Of course the VVS was the better air force of the whole conflict, capable of day and night strategic bombing hundreds of miles behind the frontlines beside interdiction of communication lines and CAS.
Of course the MiG-3 was a capable interceptor at high altitudes. Sadly, it was not the way it was used at the start and the not so good high altitude interceptor P-39 (I guess your P-38 was just a typo) was highly useful in the sort of aerial combat that predominated in the Eastern Front.
Just because some people have a different opinion from you, don't think that nobody have a clue about the air war in the East in this forum.
As
tomo pauk
hinted, a modest approach in a new place is highly appreciated, here also.Good pics, BTW.
1. I will find a photo of the pilot captain
2. Yes, it is indeed a typo. The P-38 was never supplied under lend-lease.
3. I did not write that the Air Force was the best in World War II. But you know, chickens are counted in autumn...who survived, and who died.
4. Did I generalize that no one has a clue about the war on the eastern front? You seem to take my posts very personally. Wild_Bill_Kelso was right when he wrote that After all, as I keep pointing out, the Germans didn't win the war in the East, which may come as shocking news to some...
And more... I didn't understand about your statement about P-39. I seem to have offended you... But with what?
Great plane! It's a beautiful car. Only the US Army refused it. Well, I did not refuse, but there were very few purchases. Just like she had her own illnesses. And the Russians REALLY liked it. Pokryshkin ended the war on it. And the last thing...I'm not writing vaguely, I'm trying to write like a historian, you asked me for the name of the Russian captain, and I'll find him. I'm just on the forum. A forum with participants from different countries. And each participant has his own opinion about certain facts in history. Many people, including me, may have their own opinions and their own misconceptions. In almost all my posts, I didn't put pressure on anyone. I've only given you what I know. And I know that someone might not like it.
2. Yes, it is indeed a typo. The P-38 was never supplied under lend-lease.
3. I did not write that the Air Force was the best in World War II. But you know, chickens are counted in autumn...who survived, and who died.
4. Did I generalize that no one has a clue about the war on the eastern front? You seem to take my posts very personally. Wild_Bill_Kelso was right when he wrote that After all, as I keep pointing out, the Germans didn't win the war in the East, which may come as shocking news to some...
And more... I didn't understand about your statement about P-39. I seem to have offended you... But with what?
Great plane! It's a beautiful car. Only the US Army refused it. Well, I did not refuse, but there were very few purchases. Just like she had her own illnesses. And the Russians REALLY liked it. Pokryshkin ended the war on it. And the last thing...I'm not writing vaguely, I'm trying to write like a historian, you asked me for the name of the Russian captain, and I'll find him. I'm just on the forum. A forum with participants from different countries. And each participant has his own opinion about certain facts in history. Many people, including me, may have their own opinions and their own misconceptions. In almost all my posts, I didn't put pressure on anyone. I've only given you what I know. And I know that someone might not like it.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Speaking of needing to brush up on one's history ... where do you think the Allies surrounded Model? Where was the Ardennes battle fought? Physician, heal thyself.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
The P-39 is sort of an unofficial mascot of The Forum. You may see characteristics attributed to this aircraft occasionally that are not supported by history or even rationale thought.
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
Great pics
Things got a lil out of hand. It was rather stupid, over nothing.
Long story short, after you all told our new friend to be a lil more modest when presenting his arguments, Bill made a lengthy post educating him about the forum. There were some thinly veiled jabs at our forum membership in it, and I pointed that out. He did nothing warranting a ban. He was not going to be banned. I did not attack him, nor did I threaten him.
He, however, went off on a huge insult laden tirade for no reason.
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i have no problem with someone disagreeing with me, but calling me an asshole, dick, and telling me to shove things up my ass for no reason goes too far.
I deleted the entire conversation involving the argument/insults as it was rather nasty, and served no purpose.
Wild Bill Kelso
Wild_Bill_Kelso
If you are lurking and you objectively take a look at what happened I think you can admit that what happened was uncalled for, and entirely over the top. We can have disagreements in a more constructive manner. Nothing I said to you warranted such an insult laden personal attack.
We have a ticket system where you can reach out. I'm open to lifting your ban, but only if you understand that.
And it appears you have two accounts.
Dear colleague, You forget one thing, that this is a pure stormtrooper. So what is a stormtrooper? It is an aircraft belonging to assault aviation and designed for direct support of ground forces and naval forces, as well as for targeted destruction of various land and sea targets.It is to storm the enemy's fortifications at LOW altitude. And therefore it should be moderately protected. Why would a stormtrooper pilot look back? There is an arrow to cover the tail. There were armor plates on the left and right. which protected the pilot from small arms. So the review was good for the pilot. Forward and sideways.
Oh, boy.
Thank you for the response, Chris.
I found this book in Moscow when I arrived in '94. I don't remember what the park was called, they always sold old things there, and at the same time books. I bought not only her, but a lot of magazines. This is a collection of memories of the early days of the war. The book is called "Bug on fire." The Bug is a border river with Poland. I found this captain, and I'll give you an excerpt from this book.T Texnuk , maybe you should try to expose your opinions with more than some vagueness, perhaps some facts and sources.
Which pilot 8 german planes with the I-16 in the begining of the GPW? When? Where?
Of course the VVS was the better air force of the whole conflict, capable of day and night strategic bombing hundreds of miles behind the frontlines beside interdiction of communication lines and CAS.
Of course the MiG-3 was a capable interceptor at high altitudes. Sadly, it was not the way it was used at the start and the not so good high altitude interceptor P-39 (I guess your P-38 was just a typo) was highly useful in the sort of aerial combat that predominated in the Eastern Front.
Just because some people have a different opinion from you, don't think that nobody have a clue about the air war in the East in this forum.
As
Good pics, BTW.
.."In total, on the first day of the war, the division's pilots shot down 30 enemy aircraft. 4 of them were shot down by Major Surin; 9 — Captain Savchenko (died in Pinsk), 5 — senior political officer Sirotin, 3 — Lieutenant Sakhno, 2 planes were shot down by Captain Mozhaev; Lieutenant Zhidov (now Hero of the Soviet Union, colonel in reserve).
Our pilots flew outdated aircraft, but still inflicted sensitive blows on the enemy who invaded our territory." There are also photos.
I made a mistake, not 8, but 9 planes.
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