I do not know if this is real or a beat up but I would like to know more on it.

[MiTasol]

A lot of it is badly worded which is of great concern

The Hidden Risk Faced by Female Pilots During World War II

A new Audible documentary explores the story of female pilots who faced sabotage attempts during World War II

time.com

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

From the article:

Pilot Lorraine Zillner claimed these incidents happened because of men "who didn't really feel that women had any business in a cockpit," but none of these alleged cases were proven, historian Helena Page Schrader writes in Sisters in Arms: The Women Who Flew in World War II.

I'm hard-pressed to believe it.

 

[Marcel]

From the article:



I'm hard-pressed to believe it.

Agreed although this does not take away the fact that the bias of the time prevented recognition of the contribution to the war effort by groups like the women and the non-caucasians at the time.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Agreed although this does not take away the fact that the bias of the time prevented recognition of the contribution to the war effort by groups like the women and the non-caucasians at the time.

Absolutely. I just suspect that stuff like putting sugar in their fuel tanks and so on is a bit of overstatement.

 

[Gnomey]

Agreed although this does not take away the fact that the bias of the time prevented recognition of the contribution to the war effort by groups like the women and the non-caucasians at the time.

Pretty much sums it up really.

 

[GrauGeist]

From the article:



I'm hard-pressed to believe it.

And the language is very new age, too.

The problem I have with the alleged sabotage, is back then, the war effort was priority one.

Damaging a warplane just to teach a woman a lesson, meant one less for the front and would have turned the perpetrator into an instant target for an angry mob.

 

[WARSPITER]

And the language is very new age, too.

The problem I have with the alleged sabotage, is back then, the war effort was priority one.

Damaging a warplane just to teach a woman a lesson, meant one less for the front and would have turned the perpetrator into an instant target for an angry mob.

The words sabotage and traitor also come to mind here. Doubtful that anyone would have risked that.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

And the language is very new age, too.

The problem I have with the alleged sabotage, is back then, the war effort was priority one.

Damaging a warplane just to teach a woman a lesson, meant one less for the front and would have turned the perpetrator into an instant target for an angry mob.

It just sounds wrong to me. Misogyny is one thing, and very real in that era, but killing someone over it? Smells fishy. Even if the investigation is not public, and it won't be, once they find the fuelie there's some prison time in line for him.

Destroying gov't property in wartime was, and is, a very serious offense.

 

[Checkertail20]

I am sure there were guys who didn't want women to fly but even if they did try to sabotage some planes I don't think even the most misogynist politicians and generals are going to stand for expensive equipment being destroyed especially if it means someone losing their life.

 

[GrauGeist]

It just sounds wrong to me. Misogyny is one thing, and very real in that era, but killing someone over it? Smells fishy. Even if the investigation is not public, and it won't be, once they find the fuelie there's some prison time in line for him.

Destroying gov't property in wartime was, and is, a very serious offense.

Just as Warspiter mentioned, pulling a stunt like that back during the war would have them pegged as a traitor aka Nazi Sympathizer and such.

Like I mentioned, they'd have a bigass target on their back.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Just as Warspiter mentioned, pulling a stunt like that back during the war would have them pegged as a traitor aka Nazi Sympathizer and such.

Like I mentioned, they'd have a bigass target on their back.

Yep, prison time, as I wrote. Breaking big rocks into little rocks at Leavenworth sort of thing thing.

 

[Marcel]

And the language is very new age, too.

The problem I have with the alleged sabotage, is back then, the war effort was priority one.

Damaging a warplane just to teach a woman a lesson, meant one less for the front and would have turned the perpetrator into an instant target for an angry mob.

Hmm, in an ideal world maybe, but there are enough examples of actions that were personally favourable, but not for the war effort. Most famously two generals who thought their ego was more important than winning the war.

I think it's fully plausible that things like these happened on an individual basis. I'm not saying they really happened, I just don't know.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hmm, in an ideal world maybe, but there are enough examples of actions that were personally favourable, but not for the war effort. Most famously two generals who thought their ego was more important than winning the war.

I think it's fully plausible that things like these happened on an individual basis. I'm not saying they really happened, I just don't know.

Perhaps hazing, Marcel, but not destruction of material.

There were plenty of cases where Black American pilots had been harassed, but not a single instance of their aircraft being sabotaged.

Any crash or incident, where an aircraft suffered damage, was thoroughly investigated during the war, especially if there was a potential performance issue that needed to be addressed.
So grass, sugar, sliced tires, etc. would have been immediately noted in the MACR and an investigation launched.

As far as the "top brass" goes, it was Lt. Col. Olds who, at Jacqueline Cochrane's request, convinced Lt. Gen. Arnold this was a good idea. The initial batch of WAFS were sent to England for training, so the USAAF was behind the whole thing from the start.


My Aunt Patricia (married to my Uncle Earl, USN) was a U.S. Marine during WWII and never had a single issue of disrespect or hazing during the war.

What were seeing here in the article, smells a great deal like new-age revisionist bullshit.

 

[SaparotRob]

Hmm, in an ideal world maybe, but there are enough examples of actions that were personally favourable, but not for the war effort. Most famously two generals who thought their ego was more important than winning the war.

I think it's fully plausible that things like these happened on an individual basis. I'm not saying they really happened, I just don't know.

There are those truly committed to stupidity without thinking things through.

 

[Sabrejet]

Reminds me of a published story that at the time of the Indian Partition one side spiked the Tiger Moths being allocated to the "other side" by putting sugar in the fuel tanks of the aircraft. And it "gummed up" the engines "as intended"! That one is easy to disprove on basic chemistry alone, yet people still say similar things about sabotaging cars.

So probably another easily-disproved old wives' tale.

 

[MiTasol]

The words sabotage and traitor also come to mind here. Doubtful that anyone would have risked that.

Actually the more I think on this the more I believe there is a significant element of truth in the article. Some 80 years on memories are far from perfect but we do know of proven sabotage at several aircraft and other weapons/munitions factories during ww2 and vast majority of those who commit crimes, then and now, always think they are too smart to get caught.

Naturally all those saboteurs/traitors at those factories considered themselves true patriots.

Add to that the majority of people these days are better educated but there is no doubt that there is a small percentage of the population that are intrinsically women haters and believe that the only places women should be found are, to put it bluntly, in bed or in the kitchen. This despite women proving that their best pilots are as good as the best male pilots and evidence going back to ww2 that many women are, in some fields (like aircraft welding) better than the best men.

For examples of this woman hating mind set you only have to go back to the PSA CRJ midair collision with helicopter on final at Washington on Jan 29th this year.

Within hours all the women haters, including many senior US politicians, were on sites like Pravda Social saying the one and only cause of that tragedy was that the chopper pilot was a woman. Being women haters many also claimed, without evidence, that she was "bent" and incompetent and only earned her rank thru DEI.

When the Army released her details those showed she was a 2019 distinguished military graduate, placing among the top 20% of cadets nationwide.

Needless to say, being incapable of logical thought, the women haters still say she was "bent" and incompetent and only earned her rank thru DEI because, to them, women are not allowed to be smarter and/or better than 80% of the males in that profession.

Still - to quote SaparotRob "I think it's fully plausible that things like these happened on an individual basis. I'm not saying they really happened, I just don't know."

 

[special ed]

I would only point out that mechanics would have to make the engine repairs and I feel sure they would have found who did the misdeed and take care of it unofficially. The mechanics had enough work without sabotage.

 

[WARSPITER]

What is annoying now is that things can quickly become exaggerated. People get on their soapbox and start proclaiming
such things as this was systemic even when it wasn't or there is nothing to say it was.

This then becomes a disservice to those who did have something happen to them as the soapbox brigade has already
made a mockery of the subject. I agree that is unfair to those who are wronged just as it is unfair to those who have done no wrong.

 

[MIflyer]

I do recall reading that at the time of the Battle of the Bulge there was a sudden increase in the number of sabotage attempts on aircraft built in the USA. The reason should be obvious. Nazi agents and sympathizers were told to hurt our production.

But well before that, there was clear evidence of sabotage of Brewster products. This included carefully modifying an F2A's rubber grommet that held the tailhook so that it seemed Okay but released when hit by an actual landing load and inspection covers tossed loose in the wings. Brewster used a downtown factory in New York and as a result no doubt employed man new immigrants.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Brewster used a downtown factory in New York and as a result no doubt employed man new immigrants.

I think a much bigger factor was the matter of union/management relations being so tense.