info on Mistels or Ju 88 H in general

[sturmbock44]

hello everyone im looking for anyone who could help me on Misteltoe aircraft info. I want to know if Mistels with the lengthened Ju 88 H 2 frame where ever used in combat or ready for combat besides training models? i have the schiffer book which is pretty vague in details... in line drawins they call it the Schulmistel S 3c showing it with a Fw 190 F-8 the line drawing shows what looks like the nose on C heavy fighters. would that be accurate ? ( i know its a training mistel ) i did see the shaped charged version with lengthened Ju 88 Frame with Fw 190 F-8 \ A-8 on top but it had slipper tanks ... which leads me to my second question did any lengthened mistels meant for combat not training use fw 190s without slipper tanks? i really want to build a Fw 190 A -8 F-8 with a lengthened H Ju88 but i only have shaped charge nose (like an RPG ) or a regular metal nose like on C and G models... not the droopy lengthened nose that im seeing in line drawings and picture for explosive mistels. commonly called fuhrungsmistel.

to summerize this confusing question what could i possibly build that wasnt just on paper or in planning. i was hoping to build a Ju88H combat mistel rather than training but will build training version if the nose is the same as on ju 88 Cs or G.the book shows some actual pictures without the droopy lenthened(fuhrungsmistel) nose but doesnt say if its training or combat.
and if there where any shaped charged versions even just ready for combat but never used did the Fw 190 have to have slipper tanks? thank you for any help i hope didnt make it too hard to understand.

 

[A4K]

According to 'Mistel', by Hans-Peter Dabrowski, the Führungsmistel was projected only, never built.

I have only one photo of an Fw 190A-8 with the 300 l. Doppelreiter tanks, Weisses 7, W.nr. illegible (in shadow). Hakenkreuz is in earlier style associated more the A-3/4/5 however, which makes me wonder if it wasn't a test aircraft.
I don't believe I have ever seen a photo of operational Misteln showing Fw 190 führungsflugzeuge with the Doppelreiter tanks.


Of the more than 200 Misteln built, not that many were actually used operationally in any case, often through plain bad luck (lead aircraft blowing tyres and blocking the runway preventing the rest taking off, for example). Shortage of fuel and Allied bombing put paid to many aswell.

Will read that book again, though I don't recall specific combinations being mentioned in the operational histories, only the unit. One photo caption states however:
'Ju 88H-2: approximately 10-12 examples were built, most of them planned for Mistel operations'.
That makes me wonder if any H-2s were actually fitted with a warhead at all, or just 'planned' to be so... certainly all published photos I have seen are of S-3C Schulmisteln only - though of course that by no means rules out the possibility that some may in fact have become operational 3-C Misteln.

 

[bobbysocks]

i have read a combat report where a camoflauged airbase south east of magdeburg was discovered and strafed by mustangs on march 2, 1945. according to this report the base contained several 190/111 combination mistels and one 190/88 version...and several other 88s and 111s that werent married up with 190s. so i would presume this was a mistel field. whether these planes were scheduled for operation or training i have no information but they were pretty much unusable once mustangs were done...

 

[sturmbock44]

AK7 and bobbysocks thank you much. my book on mistels that the ready for op mistels that im interested in where strafed but thats really cool because i hadnt heard anything beyond planned versions of the 188 being on paper!... if combat ready mistels they probably wouldnt have looked very different than the C G or H 88s unless they where training models then they would have the glazed canopy and cockpit which would have looked sweet! as for my modeling plan i think ill end up keeping or selling the paragon H conversion set because it doesnt have any of the gun blisters for the bottom which an H1 or H2 would of have had, thats why i wanted to build a mistel out of it so i could save my self the scratch building gun pods and cannons and FuG 200 rardar... so its either build a training mistel 3c or try and get accurate pictures to build a H1 or H2 ... mainly im lacking the weapons pods that they would of had. the FuG 200 can be bought online from Extratech but i would also have to modify the supports for it and they pics online are kinda vague for what it would look like... im kinda stuck i have the ability to build two mistels ones with the shaped charged nose and a training version only modification would be deleting the gondola which comes with all Ju 88 except C-5s. one thing is the more info that i can get i will greatly appreciate, and when i get these babies going ill post pics . im new to the forum ill be posting pics of some of my latest work soon. ive seen some really nice work and a lot of smart people on this site glad to b a member.

 

[bobbysocks]

"i hadnt heard anything beyond planned versions of the 188 being on paper!... "

are you talking a ju 188? on the map legend from that combat report.. one of the ac mentioned at that field was a ju 188. but i didnt know if it was a typo or a missed ID so thus did not mention it...

if you are interested in building one as a model check out the model section of this forum. there are some extremely knowledgeable and talented builders here. and here are a few sites i found ...

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2007/05/stuff_eng_benshahar_mistel.htm

http://www.rlm.at/cont/gal02_e.htm

 

[Erich]

Bobbysocks the field was Burg home of IV./JG 301 which was pretty much annihilated on 2 March 1945 over their airfield, but also home of other German twin engine units as a permanent A/F or stop over. great US Mustang picking's on ground attack op(s).

the Ju 88H-1 was a high alt recon variant but used sparingly and literally not many were produced, the Mistel combo was primarily Ju 88A's transformed with longer fuselage and internal fuel tanks, literally gutted from the inside out.

 

[davebender]

Why did the Luftwaffe wait until almost the end of the war to produce this long range variant? It would have been ideal for maritime patrol.

 

[bobbysocks]

E~ was Burg a cement runway? the one i am talking about was described as a large well camouflaged grass runway field. i got the impression it was not a normal strip but one set up to hide planes. it also states that "it appeared new", " there were a lotof ships without props or cowls," and "a large airdrome was between this strip and magdeburg". it was hit pretty hard with 15 - 20 ac and mistels set ablaze.

 

[A4K]

Bobbysocks, re that report. No He 111s were used as Misteln. The only He 111s used in any form of parasite aircraft concept (TMK) were those adapted to launch V-1s.
Interested to know what aircraft they were referring to - possibly Misteln with warheads fitted minus fuse caps (as seen in various photos)

 

[sturmbock44]

Heres a shameful way of putting in my DML 1\48 Ju 188 before i get around to post shading it and putting it in the completed section. when i built it i didnt really post shade yet and i think it would add some quality... although the single pic i have of this Ju 188 doesnt really show too much paint fading or weathering. got the DML mistel Kit so something will be in the works when i decide on what i want to do

 

[A4K]

VERY nice mate!

 

[Erich]

Sturm lovely 88 model camo, very well done.............. there were quite a few variatiso9n even per staffel in the way the meanders were applied.

Bobbysocks - yes Burg was cement originally and was nearly blown off the planet by B-17's even by 1 group which ws sent to unload on this known A/F. a secret reveled it was home of night fighter jet kommando Welter which was almost destroyed during the bombing as the vets of the jet unit said in so many words our machines and tents/quarters were vaporized !

 

[bobbysocks]

hmmm interesting. usually these guys are pretty good with ac identification...it would be interesting to find out what planes they actually saw.

 

[Siegfried]

Why did the Luftwaffe wait until almost the end of the war to produce this long range variant? It would have been ideal for maritime patrol.

I suspect they were a stopgap or backup after the cancellation of 4 engined maritime reconaisance aircraft.

I can't recall the name of the General in Charge of long range maritime reconaisance for the Luftwaffe but he had finally had enough of waiting for He 177/He277/Ju290/Ju 390 and withdrew his support and decided on a coupled Do 335 (Do 635 Zwilling or twin). The extended fueselage Ju 88H versions were probably a backup or stopgap continued for a short while after the fighter emergency program post Normandy landings lead to cancellation of most bomber programs. I find the Ju 88H with the bulbous drooped microwave radar nose aesthetically quite pleasing.

With the performance and engine improvements planed for the Do 335/635 its speed would have stayed ahead of allied carrier born interceptor aircraft and it had the advantage of being one of the few piston engine types scheduled with production with the jets ie a derivative of an design slated for mass production with all the support that entails. The microwave radar was a dielectric rod type radiating from the leading edges. The allies found the wing and antena and analysed it.

 

[Erich]

both the H-1 and H-2 were used in the Maritime role by Fliegerführer Atlantik in 1943. each Ju 88 was fitted with FuG 220 "H" radar.