Information on German and British Losses in ETO.

[Gnomey]

I was wondering if I could have some information on the following please:

First is an FW190 shot down over the Gustav Line either by AAA or another fighter the account doesn't say (Witness to War Richard Aldrich P648).

The second is information on the RAF's Nuremberg raid of 30th March 1944 during which they lost 96 bombers and 600 men. (Witness to War Richard Aldrich P666).

Erich I think you should have something on the second one which would be great.

Thanks

Gnomey

 

[Erich]

RAF actually lost 103 to 106 heavies to the Luftwaffe, and yes I have much more but will have to dig it all out .........

Erich

 

[Gnomey]

That would be great if you could Erich, sounds like one of the worst nights of the war in terms of losses for the RAF Heavies.

 

[Concorde247]

Hi guys,

Regarding the Nuremburg raid on the 30/03/1944,
I've looked up what it says in the Bomber command War Diaries 1939-1945 by Martin Middlebrook Chris Everitt.

It says in it that there were 95 bombers were lost in all, - 64 lancasters 31 Halifaxes which was 11.9% of the bomber force dispatched - the biggest Bomber Command loss of the war.

Here is the entry in its entirety...

30/31 March 1944
NUREMBURG

This would normally have been the moon stand-down period for the main bomber force, but a raid to the distant target of Nuremburg was planned on the basis of an early forecast that there would be protective high cloud on the outward route, when the moon would be up, but the target area would be clear for ground-marked bombing. A meteorological flight mosquito carried out a reconnaisance and reported that the protective cloud was unlikely to be present and that there could be cloud over the target, but the raid was not cancelled.

795 aircraft were dispatched - 572 Lancasters, 214 Halifaxes and 9 Mosqiutos. The German controller ignored all the diversions and assembled his fighters at 2 radio beacons which happened to be astride the route to Nuremourg. The first fighters appeared just before the bombers reached the Belgian border and a fierce battle in the moonlight lasted for the next hour. 82 bombers were lost on the outward route and near the target. The action was much reduced on the return flight, when most of the German fighters had to land, but 95 bombers were lost in all, - 64 lancasters 31 Halifaxes which was 11.9% of the bomber force dispatched - the biggest Bomber Command loss of the war.

Most of the returning crews reported that they had bombed Nuremburg but subsequent research showed that approximately 120 aircraft had bombed Schweinfurt, 50 miles north-west of Nuremburg. This mistake was a result of badly forecast winds causing navigational difficulties. 2 pathfinder aircraft dropped markers at Schweinfurt. Much of the bombing in the schweinfurt area fell outside the town and only 2 people were killed in that area.

The main raid at Nuremburg was a failure. The city was covered by thick cloud and a fierce cross-wind which developed on the final approach to the target caused many of the pathfinder aircraft to mark too far to the east. A 10-mile long creepback also developed into the countryside north of Nuremburg. Both pathfinders and main force aircraft were under heavy fighter attack throughout the raid. Little damage was caused in Nuremburg; 69 people were killed in the city and the surrounding villages.

DIVERSION AND SUPPORT OPERATIONS
49 Halifaxes minelaying in the Heligoland area, 13 Mosquitos to night-fighter airfields, 34 mosquitos on diversions to Aachen, Cologne and Kassel, 5 Radio Countermeasures sorties, 19 Serrate patrols. No aircraft lost.

MINOR OPERATIONS
3 OBOE Mosquitos to Oberhuasen (where 23 Germans waiting to go into a public shelterwere killed by a bomb) and 1 Mosquito to Dortmund, 6 Stirlings minelaying off Texel and Le Havre, 17 aircraft on resistance operations, 8 OTU sorties. 1 Halifax shot down dropping Resistance agents over Belgium.

TOTAL EFFORT FOR THE NIGHT: 950 sorties, 96 aircraft (10.1%) lost.


A very bad night for the RAF indeed.

 

[Concorde247]

As an addendum to the above, and quoting from the Bomber Command Losses 1944 by W R Chorley,

Table of Losses:

94 aircraft lost, 11 crashed, 537 Aircrew Killed, 157 POW's with 11 Evading Capture

 

[pbfoot]

I've read accounts that there was a undercast and with the moon reflecting on the lower clouds it lit the sky one account the pilot said he could see quite clearly 15 aircraft at one point " I was flying in a well lit arena "were his words not a very stealthy night at all making it a turkey shoot for the german guys

 

[Erich]

although Chorleys work is always used by serious researchers it must be made clear that he has gaps in his works. Nürnberg cost the RAF some 106 heavies with many dumped after crashing on English soil as well a host of damged craft

 

[annecooper]

i am daughter of a deceased decorated bummer pilot in world war2,would like to recieve all statistic information-losses of planes and pilots.per mission and total,numbers and statistics,also,on where is the information from,and where can i get formal information..anne